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Bike for son and me

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I want to buy a dirt bike for me and my son. I'm 49, 5'11-175 he's 16, 5'10 165,,were about the the same size. Neither of us has ever ridden any motor bike.I mostly want a bike we won't grow out of and my top preference is it be durable ,don't care about top speed just something that will get up out the hole good and "won't" break down every ride.Want to buy used too.Bugdet 3-4 grand.And I don't mind doind repairs once in awhile to learn about the bike.

Thanks so much for any help

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This is tuff you have no riding experience but want something big. A 450f would be good but it's a lot for no experience. A 250f is good but you sin might out grow it fast if he turns out to be really good. The 250f might be to small for you right off the bat. Fourstrokes require more maintenece but smoother more useable power. Two stroke on the other hand 250 ( equivalent to a 450f) or 125 (equivalent to a 250f) have to keep up momentum to be able to run them with full potential. Two strokes Also have to be in the right gear to gain power fast especially 125's. Also two strokes don't have a engine braking device where you let go of throttle and it slows dramatically compared to two strokes where it takes a while. So basically a four stroke will get power right out of a corner where a two stroke you would have to keep that momentum all the way through the turn or wait a while to gain power again. 4 stroke = easy 2 stroke = hard but fun.

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This is tuff you have no riding experience but want something big. A 450f would be good but it's a lot for no experience. A 250f is good but you sin might out grow it fast if he turns out to be really good. The 250f might be to small for you right off the bat. Fourstrokes require more maintenece but smoother more useable power. Two stroke on the other hand 250 ( equivalent to a 450f) or 125 (equivalent to a 250f) have to keep up momentum to be able to run them with full potential. Two strokes Also have to be in the right gear to gain power fast especially 125's. Also two strokes don't have a engine braking device where you let go of throttle and it slows dramatically compared to two strokes where it takes a while. So basically a four stroke will get power right out of a corner where a two stroke you would have to keep that momentum all the way through the turn or wait a while to gain power again. 4 stroke = easy 2 stroke = hard but fun.

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This is tuff you have no riding experience but want something big. A 450f would be good but it's a lot for no experience. A 250f is good but you sin might out grow it fast if he turns out to be really good. The 250f might be to small for you right off the bat. Fourstrokes require more maintenece but smoother more useable power. Two stroke on the other hand 250 ( equivalent to a 450f) or 125 (equivalent to a 250f) have to keep up momentum to be able to run them with full potential. Two strokes Also have to be in the right gear to gain power fast especially 125's. Also two strokes don't have a engine braking device where you let go of throttle and it slows dramatically compared to two strokes where it takes a while. So basically a four stroke will get power right out of a corner where a two stroke you would have to keep that momentum all the way through the turn or wait a while to gain power again. 4 stroke = easy 2 stroke = hard but fun.

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From what you said I would think a 250 4 stroke will be fine. You said 250f, is that a brand? Which brand would be good for 250 4 stroke? I would be buying used, thanks again

Edited by frost55

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I just read that a 2 stroke is a lot easier to fix, maybe that would be better for us to work on together?

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I just read that a 2 stroke is a lot easier to fix, maybe that would be better for us to work on together?

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The best trail bike out there would be an xr400. LOADS of torqe, though not a lot of horsepower. Their main attraction is that they are bulletproof. You and your son could both handle one easy

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The best trail bike out there would be an xr400. LOADS of torqe, though not a lot of horsepower. Their main attraction is that they are bulletproof. You and your son could both handle one easy

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I disagree with most of what's been said so far. A 250 2 stroke (MX Bike) would be too much bike for you. I'm pretty new to the sport as well, and I purchased a 250F (250 F=4 stroke FYI) I still have it, and it's still enough for me to do what I need to do, which is a mix of MX and trails, and I think it would be plenty for you. I also have a KTM 200 XC-W 2 stroke, which is more of a woods bike, but I ride it on the track from time to time as well.

 

As others have said, a 4 stroke is much easier to ride, especially for someone new to the sport, but my KTM 200 (2-stroke) is VERY tunable. It has an adjustable power valve that you can pretty much tune to match any level of riding, so that would be my recommendation for you and your son. Size wise, it would fit the both of you nicely. I'd go with a 2008-current model KTM 200 XC, and tune the suspension to your preference/riding style.

 

As far as maintenance goes, both are easy to work on if you asked me, but a complete rebuild of a 4 stroke is going to set you back quite a bit, where as a 2 stroke rebuild is much cheaper, but requires rebuilds twice as much. Pick your poison.  :excuseme: The 4 strokes require the occasional valve adjustment, and I check mine every 10-15 hours of riding time. It's pretty easy if you have any mechanical knowledge whatsoever, and it will go a long way in extending the life of your bike. If decide to go with a 250F, pick a color, find a clean one and you'll be OK. People here have a lot of opinions and you'll find that most of them are based off nothing more than "I have a Yamaha, so Yamaha is the best"

 

One more thing, remember that both machines require routine maintenance. Both will only run as well as you maintain them.

 

Happy bike Hunting!

Edited by RAGEman

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I take the same approach as RAGEMAN.  I think a 250 2 stroke or a 450 4 stroke would be a very bad idea to start with.  Can you grow into them.....yes.....if you live long enough to recover from injuries caused while you were learning throttle and clutch control the hard way.

 

Here is what I would suggest if you want some reliability and you want a move up bike for your son....when you are ready to move to a larger bike.  Start your son on a WR250F or CRF250X (these are the enduro/offroad versions) of the 250f motocross bikes (CRF250F, KX250F, CRF250R, RMZ250 KTM 250 SXF).  The reason they are called "250f" bikes is that they are 250 four stroke bikes and people are trying to avoid confusion with a 250 two stroke bike (generally  no "'F" included anywhere in the model name .  Get yourself a KTM 200 XC-W 2 stroke.  When you are ready to move up, the KTM 200 would be a good move up bike for your son.  You could then move to a 250/300 two stroke or 400/450 4 stroke.

 

You will both need to take it easy if you are brand new riders, but these give you room for growth.  What you are asking for in a bike to start with and grow with and ride offroad and MX tracks and $3-4K in Canada.....does not really exist.  Most brand new riders, start with something like a CRF230F or TTR230F which is an aircooled 4 stroke trail bike with a LOT less power than the watercooled 4 stroke MX or offroad bike.  Once they learn the basics, they sell and move to something like a 250 4 stroke or 200 two stroke.

 

As you may know already two stroke displacement is not the same thing as 4 stroke displacement power-wise.  They also have widely divergent power characteristics.  Here is a general rule of thumb and I am comparing water cooled 2 strokes to water cooled 4 strokes):

 

Two Stroke/Four Stroke

85-100 = 150

125 = 250

200 = 350

300 = 450

500 = they dont really make a 4 stroke equivalent to this two stroke monster

 

You also need to pay attention to whether the bike will have wide-ratio transmission (off road/enduro) or close ratio (MX bikes).  KTM does make a semi-close ratio called the (XC).  Close ratio MX bikes dont make very good trail bikes and are not very friendly for beginners on the trail since you really cant ride them slow even in 1st gear.  Everything I recommended for you is a wide ratio transmission.

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Most brand new riders, start with something like a CRF230F or TTR230F which is an aircooled 4 stroke trail bike with a LOT less power than the watercooled 4 stroke MX or offroad bike.  Once they learn the basics, they sell and move to something like a 250 4 stroke or 200 two stroke.

 

This was my EXACT path. I bought a CRF230F just to see if I'd enjoy life on 2 wheels. Decided I liked it, sold it 6 months later (at a good profit mind you) and bought a 250F. Decided I wanted a 2 stroke, bought the KTM 200 XC-W. 

 

I'm a novice dirt bike rider, but I'm not new to the sport. I've ridden racing quads for all of my adult life (the last 15 years). I outgrew the 230F quickly for this reason, but you might not. Everyone is different. 

 

I agree with SilvFX, except I think the 200 XC-W is an excellent bike for both you and your son. The 200 shares it's frame with the 125, so it's power/weight ratio is good. I'm similar in size to both of you (6'-0" / 165lbs) and it fits me perfect.

Edited by RAGEman

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Thanks a lot guys. I

I'm going to look for a Ktm 200 xc with 2008 or newer

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I agree with rageman and silvfox. I can almost guarantee your opinion of the type and brand of bike suits you best will change once you figure out exactly what type of riding you will be doing most. You will learn a lot being around other riders. I would say like rageman did and find a good clean 250 F any brand, maybe one off road and one MX for you and your boy and trade off to compare. Don't plan on your first bike being your last, chances are your needs and preferences will change after a season or 2! I like riding more desert and trail. I have a 96 XR 250 that still runs like a champ, HP to weight ratio only draw back. My CRF 250 X is also an off-road, the power is night and day to the XR. This January purchased KTM 350 XCW, and love it! Good luck and welcome to the club! Where ya from anyway?

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Frost55....you need to look for a KTM 200 XC-W (the W is for wide ratio).  KTM does not make a 200 XC (semi close ratio transmission).  Early models were KTM 200 EXC.

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