Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

On-the-fly suspension shifter on my beta!

Recommended Posts

So my engineering mind got the best of me and I made this on the fly suspension shifter and of course, the only bike that i have to mock it up on is my Beta 450rr.  You wanna talk about BADASS!!!!  The prototype is unreal!  I posted it on kickstarter to get the funding that is needed to put it into production.  Please back if you can!  

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1134216623/on-the-fly-dirtbike-suspension-shifter

 

Yes, its insane!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Givin that this sport seems to be  dominated mostly by bling fairies your product should be a resounding success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am in a tough spot right now but if I wasn't I would be PMing you big time. i think if you could get a servo on the top side that would fit and the bottom side that could take abuse you would be alright. Nice job.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the BMW world. They have had that adjustably for quite a few years. My K1600 and GS1200 ADV let me go from sport to normal to comfort modes. It also adjust for one rider with or with out luggage and two riders with or without luggage all at the flip of a switch on the fly. They call it ESA( electronic suspension adjustment). It's nice to see someone applying it to the off road market. I wish you success and keep us posted.

Edited by Rotax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't really a bling thing that most products are like an anodized shark fin or insane accessory.  This is something that has a real practical purpose, this is something that will save you serious energy and ride comfort.  

 

Other manufactures make something similar, but nothing on this level,  BMWs design doing something completely different.  They are playing with spring preload.  

 

The servos are really nice, small, compact and very powerful and work perfect!  Will keep you guys in the loop for sure! 

Edited by GTi4lifee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't really a bling thing that most products are like an anodized shark fin or insane accessory.  This is something that has a real practical purpose, this is something that will save you serious energy and ride comfort.  

 

Other manufactures make something similar, but nothing on this level,  BMWs design doing something completely different.  They are playing with spring preload.  

 

The servos are really nice, small, compact and very powerful and work perfect!  Will keep you guys in the loop for sure! 

The rider and luggage choices are the pre load. The sport,normal and comfort choices are the compression and rebound. They explain it here.

  ESA (Electronic Suspension Adjustment)

In the BMW K 1200 S the first electronic chassis adjustment function in motorcycle construction celebrated its premiere: ESA. This optional feature enables the rider to adapt the chassis of the motorcycle ideally to his riding style, the load of the motorcycle and the road conditions in question.

Using a button on the left handlebar panel, the rider can vary the suspension and damping characteristics of the front and rear suspension strut. Adjustment is effected in two steps by means of a control unit in the central electronics system. In the first step, the rider sets the pre-load of the spring mount according to the motorcycle load (solo; solo with luggage or passenger, with luggage and passenger). An electrical motor performs the adjustment function which is only possible when stationary for reasons of functional efficiency and safety.

In the second step, the rider selects the damper setting appropriate to his riding style: here, Sport, Normal and Comfort modes are available. The setting of damping characteristics can also be undertaken while riding. In the front ESA strut, the rebound damping is adjusted, in the rear strut both the rebound and compression stages are adjusted. The actual adjustment is performed by step motors directly at the damper. The electronic systems selects the damping rate which is appropriate for the spring rest selection: thus suspension and damping characteristics are always perfectly matched. Since the rider can combine all three modes for load and riding style, a total of nine different adjustment programs are in fact available to him. A display on the info flatscreen in the cockpit indicates the currently selected program.

The advantage of electronic chassis adjustment with ESA as compared to conventional mechanical adjustment of spring pre-load and damping characteristics lies in the constantly harmonious co-ordination between all chassis components. The rider also saves awkward and time-consuming fiddling with tools: instead he can make adjustments conveniently by a press of the button within ten seconds. This makes it possible to adjust the chassis within a very short time, for example when taking a pillion along at short notice or in the event of a sudden change in road surface characteristics.

With the ESA system, BMW Motorrad gives the riders of the K 1200 S,K 1600, K 1200 R, R 1200 R and R 1200 RT a convenient, fast and simple-to-operate instrument for optimum chassis adjustment allowing them to exploit the full potential offered by a modern chassis. In this way ESA system, which is unique in motorcycle construction, represents an efficient contribution to achieving more safety and comfort on the road.

Edited by Rotax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't see this working in a offroad application. Too many variables happening too fast....

 

Givin that this sport seems to be  dominated mostly by bling fairies your product should be a resounding success.

 

It sounds good. And I really do wish you luck. But in reality is really nothing more than bling.

 

I have to agree with Monk.  Not sure about the BMW, but the KTM1190 ESA was a worthless POS on the one I rode. I mean think about it. Why in the hell would you need to adjust suspension on the fly. It's just another thing I don't want to think about when I'm riding. Not to mention another thing to break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rider and luggage choices are the pre load. The sport,normal and comfort choices are the compression and rebound. They explain it here.

  ESA (Electronic Suspension Adjustment)

In the BMW K 1200 S the first electronic chassis adjustment function in motorcycle construction celebrated its premiere: ESA. This optional feature enables the rider to adapt the chassis of the motorcycle ideally to his riding style, the load of the motorcycle and the road conditions in question.

Using a button on the left handlebar panel, the rider can vary the suspension and damping characteristics of the front and rear suspension strut. Adjustment is effected in two steps by means of a control unit in the central electronics system. In the first step, the rider sets the pre-load of the spring mount according to the motorcycle load (solo; solo with luggage or passenger, with luggage and passenger). An electrical motor performs the adjustment function which is only possible when stationary for reasons of functional efficiency and safety.

In the second step, the rider selects the damper setting appropriate to his riding style: here, Sport, Normal and Comfort modes are available. The setting of damping characteristics can also be undertaken while riding. In the front ESA strut, the rebound damping is adjusted, in the rear strut both the rebound and compression stages are adjusted. The actual adjustment is performed by step motors directly at the damper. The electronic systems selects the damping rate which is appropriate for the spring rest selection: thus suspension and damping characteristics are always perfectly matched. Since the rider can combine all three modes for load and riding style, a total of nine different adjustment programs are in fact available to him. A display on the info flatscreen in the cockpit indicates the currently selected program.

The advantage of electronic chassis adjustment with ESA as compared to conventional mechanical adjustment of spring pre-load and damping characteristics lies in the constantly harmonious co-ordination between all chassis components. The rider also saves awkward and time-consuming fiddling with tools: instead he can make adjustments conveniently by a press of the button within ten seconds. This makes it possible to adjust the chassis within a very short time, for example when taking a pillion along at short notice or in the event of a sudden change in road surface characteristics.

With the ESA system, BMW Motorrad gives the riders of the K 1200 S,K 1600, K 1200 R, R 1200 R and R 1200 RT a convenient, fast and simple-to-operate instrument for optimum chassis adjustment allowing them to exploit the full potential offered by a modern chassis. In this way ESA system, which is unique in motorcycle construction, represents an efficient contribution to achieving more safety and comfort on the road.

I also believe Ducati has this type of suspension and it is even on the Sachs components. I would think you are on a fine line with IP and if this does work, why hasn't Fox or Marzocchi brought the mountain bike design with added electronics to MC?? As for me personally, I can't see the cost vs. what a good tuned CC forks gives you.

Edited by weantright

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How could this not work for off-road is my question?  KTM and BMW are catering for two diffrent riding styles, they are trying to build a suspension that caters to off-road and on-road.  Also the electronics that are involved in those systems are intense!  I am not taking away from those systems but critique must be given in that they are generic settings and not catering to the individual that is operating it.  I can make a "soft, sport or comfort" mode but that is general and lame IMO.  What about making Soft terrain, Med terrain and Rock terrain and make the suspension do what it needs to do.  The clickers are there to adjust for the terrain and the rider, but yet VERY FEW people touch them and that is what I am doing with this is removing the tabboo of adjustments out of the picture.      

 

Mine is straight forward, I will tell you that well placed money into a suspension will make you smile so much more, then add this kit in and it is something that you have never felt before and becomes a beast.  

 

As far as cost- how about 250 for the kit with your settings programmed into it.  Thats it!  You can pay 20k (or a little less for the KTM one) and get that kit, but can you race enduro with those bikes or swap that suspension into other bikes?  You can with mine.  I have done it!  I put the prototype in three suspensions and they WORK!  Harder accelerations, softer suspension in the rocks and the whole gammit!  My Beta 450RR is shown in the demo.  That bike is out of the box amazing!  Now add in tuned suspension and this kit and I was clocked at the highest speeds I have ever obtained in the AZ desert in which sand, shale rock and boulders all exist within a 7 mile loop.  

 

If you are skeptical, buy one, try it out, if you hate it i'll take it back.  This isn't some BS shinny gadget that makes riders feel confident, this is the real fn deal for enduro and cross country guys that are riding the 125- 525 real bikes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good on you! Regardless of the negative comments, your product would be ideal in certain conditions such as when you get a new bike or revalved components and want to try different settings. I know when I am on a trail ride I have good intentions of changing settings, but don't want to hold everyone up while I dink around with changing clickers. It interrupts the flow of the day and frankly gets a little tiring putting up with someone who does do this. It would also be dependent on cost to the end user as it is for most that ride as a hobby. I was one of the first to adopt the auto clutch in our area and remember quite well the naysayers, it's not surprising that seems to be the opposite these days. Good luck to you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My suspension is set pretty stiff for a full out race mode. You could back the clickers or turn them in all you like, it isn't going to change that much. There is nothing "sport" about it. Variable valving is the key, not compression clickers. And as for price, think $700+.... At $250 there is no money too be made...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good on you! Regardless of the negative comments, your product would be ideal in certain conditions such as when you get a new bike or revalved components and want to try different settings. I know when I am on a trail ride I have good intentions of changing settings, but don't want to hold everyone up while I dink around with changing clickers. It interrupts the flow of the day and frankly gets a little tiring putting up with someone who does do this. It would also be dependent on cost to the end user as it is for most that ride as a hobby. I was one of the first to adopt the auto clutch in our area and remember quite well the naysayers, it's not surprising that seems to be the opposite these days. Good luck to you!

Then invest....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the price point down, 250 is where it is and where it needs to be.  I got the price point down due to I don't want to produce something that only the people with money can afford.  I want EVERYONE to have this kit, including the guys that scrounge enough cash to just go and ride on the weekend. 

 

For the full race guys, I get that clickers don't come into play unless you are in the sweet spot of the suspension, like if set for high speed stuff and your doing 20 mph, that is stiff and will bounce you everywhere!  But at 70 it starts working- and so do your clickers.  I am also not targeting just one clicker like compression either- its ALL!  High speed, low speed shock, both forks, shock rebound.  

 

And for a Mod- that invest comment comes across a little unprofessional monk.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the price point down, 250 is where it is and where it needs to be. I got the price point down due to I don't want to produce something that only the people with money can afford. I want EVERYONE to have this kit, including the guys that scrounge enough cash to just go and ride on the weekend.

For the full race guys, I get that clickers don't come into play unless you are in the sweet spot of the suspension, like if set for high speed stuff and your doing 20 mph, that is stiff and will bounce you everywhere! But at 70 it starts working- and so do your clickers. I am also not targeting just one clicker like compression either- its ALL! High speed, low speed shock, both forks, shock rebound.

And for a Mod- that invest comment comes across a little unprofessional monk.

Why does everyone think I'm a mod....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does everyone think I'm a mod....

Cause it says team thumper talk on your bar.  That would make the tie to the website like you are a member of the thumpertalk team.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cause it says team thumper talk on your bar. That would make the tie to the website like you are a member of the thumpertalk team.

I am a member of Thumpertalk, but I pay for that luxury!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Monks defense, I did not take offense with his comment. I've followed his posts on other subject matter and have not seen where he is mean spirited. As far as his comment, I just may even tho I probably would not purchase it for my riding at this late date in life. I still think it takes people like GT that advance our sport whether it takes off or not is not the question. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Monks defense, I did not take offense with his comment. I've followed his posts on other subject matter and have not seen where he is mean spirited. As far as his comment, I just may even tho I probably would not purchase it for my riding at this late date in life. I still think it takes people like GT that advance our sport whether it takes off or not is not the question. 

I don't want to come across as negative either. This might be a great modification for some that always like to "tinker on the trail". I'm just not one of them.

 

The clickers are there to adjust for the terrain and the rider, but yet VERY FEW people touch them and that is what I am doing with this is removing the tabboo of adjustments out of the picture.      

 

 

I do agree that most people don't want to mess with clickers. I'm not afraid of them at all. When I get a bike, it's one of the first things I mess with to get it dialed in just right. Once my valving, compression/rebound and sag are set, there's really not much to do with the clickers other than softening up the compression for slow, rocky trails.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My suspension is set pretty stiff for a full out race mode. You could back the clickers or turn them in all you like, it isn't going to change that much. There is nothing "sport" about it. Variable valving is the key, not compression clickers. And as for price, think $700+.... At $250 there is no money too be made...

 

That's a really interesting concept. How so true it is to have the valving (and springs) set for the way you ride. While spending a half day adjusting my clickers on stock suspension helped, it was a night and day difference when I had the re-valve done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×