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Cr250 to crf450r please help setup for sand....

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Last few years I rode a 96' cr250, mostly always ran 2 strokes. When I grew up if you were on a 4 stroke you were getting your ass handed to you unless it was in the woods. Times have changed so i decided to give the new 4 strokes a chance. Found a nice vet owned 06 crf450, went out to the sand track and was very surprised with the bike. Its hard to say... but the four stroke is much easier to ride, and much more forgiving, not missing the 2 stroke much at this point.

 

The big issue with the bike is if i let off the gas or get on the brakes the front end dives and pushes in the sand, leaving me wondering where i am headed as I have no control at this point. I already know the rear shock is blown, and the rear preload is too stiff, I am sure these are not helping, my question is are the tires on the bike causing some issues too?

 

 

pics are

 

old cr250

06 crf450

 

current tires on crf450

 

tires that were on cr250 (handled on rails in sand)

 

extra set of michelin tires that came with bike, would like to put these on if they will help in the sand...

 

 

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That rear shock and sag is a big factor on your front end. I also recommend a scotts dampner. I don't ride enough sand to change tires so I'll leave that to somebody else. I did find the dampner solved my sand issue around where I ride tho

Edited by Diggla117

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  I am real curious how this turns out for you when you get done, the Cr 250 was a great all around performer. I believe the steering on the 450 is a little tighter for Super X and the bikes from 05 on were not as good as the 04 450 model in sand? In 2006 they lowered the engine on the 450 5mm over the 05 to try and fix the twitchieness in like sand in so forth.

 

     The CR 250 was known to work a little better in sand steering, the 04 CRF 450 and I believe the Cr 250 had it too a fork that was I believe 2mm more relaxed and should give more stability for sand. When you are opting for a steering dampener that should tell you something. They started putting them on the 08 because Honda had to admit the bikes was sketchy in loose terrain. I know this because I have a 05 and 04 and the 04 is a good bit more stable in sand. 

 

      I actually wish the frame geometry on the CRF 450 05-08 was more like the Cr 250 because that is a great overall setup. I will follow this thread, good luck. :rolleyes:

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When you lower the front forks a quarter inch in the tripple clamps it makes a hell of a difference. I heard this over and over again and thought what could that little but do and finally did.. The bike handles Soo much better and I can actually nail corners without worrying about it washing out hardly at all

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  You are talking about speeding the steering up, I think he wants to slow the steering  down and make the bike not to wander as much and be more stable holding a line?

Edited by Whipitnow

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You are talking about speeding the steering up, I think he wants to slow the steering down and make the bike not to wounder as much and be more stable holding a line?

I'm talking about how lowering the forks that little but makes a huge difference on how the bike handles and anybody that hasn't done it yet should def try it. Hell it's free! And as many people swear by it.. No matter what tho until that shock gets addressed it going to ride like shit. I would think getting that fixed would be pretty high on the priority lost...

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I use Michelin sand 4 on the back and Dunlop Hard Terrain MX71 on the front. Works great in the sand, this was the best floating widest (measured) front tire I could find, I run it 6-8 psig and it lasts forever and never chunks when I hit hard terrain. As for the rest I think it's just figuring out how to make it work for your riding style, or more to the point adjusting your riding style to the bike. I have found front tires billed as Mud / sand tires suck in the sand especially as it dries out. They work fine in the mud but I hate them in the sand.

Edited by ramjetV8

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I'm talking about how lowering the forks that little but makes a huge difference on how the bike handles and anybody that hasn't done it yet should def try it. Hell it's free! And as many people swear by it.. No matter what tho until that shock gets addressed it going to ride like shit. I would think getting that fixed would be pretty high on the priority lost...

 

  Here in Fl in the sand we do the opposite by raising the tubes, loweing the tubes will make the bike shake more and wander more in turning in the talcum powder sand we have here.

 

   I had it backwards lower the tubes in the clamp make the bike taller.

Edited by Whipitnow

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Raising the tubes in the clamps speeds up the steering feel, and gives you more turn for less effort. 

The problem of course is that over correcting now becomes a problem, as does high speed control.

 

I would do the opposite for sand, and make sure the sag is 25/100 to keep steering precise.

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Do you still have the CR? I have noticed that when riding my CRF450 in sand it's more prone to dive which translates into slower lap times. I race my CR250 on sand tracks and my results are better. As for your 450 You need to get your shock fixed ASAP before you try to get it dialed. After that gets addressed then soften the back end and drop the forks in the clamps. Stay away from your front brake.

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The 3 big handling diffs between a CR250R and a CRF450R is steering angle, balance point and decel braking.

 

I haven't ever seen an aftermarket more relaxed triple, just tighter. If the pre-06 stock ones are lazier I bet you could find one for next to nothing on 'ol ebay. 

 

The engine is heavier in the CRF450 so it tends to weight the front end more. Lowering sag and raising the triples on the tubes will help shift CG back as well as lazy out your steering a little.

 

Decel braking is hugely different. It'll make the bike lunge into the sand when you let off the gas. Raising idle speed helps, throttle control helps more.

 

Last, and I do this on every bike I have ever ridden in the sand- is to run really low front tire psi, like 3-5. Doesn't matter the tire, that big footprint helps a ton. Watch that you don't smack a rock or log and you'll be fine. I haven't ever hurt a tire or rim with this.

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  He is talking old school 250, I should have paid closer attention. The CRF after 04 450 is known to not be a loose terrain handler up front. The 2002 n later  CR 250 is a great and I mean great AF chasses. If you cannot get it sorted out you should try to pick up a set of 2004 or earlier CRF Forks because they have 2mm less offset. Another trick I know that will work for sure is to mount a 2009 and later CRF 450 swing arm on that bike because they are 1 inch longer but that for sure will wreck your tight turning ability.

 

  I know this because I have a 2005 CRF 450 with a CR 500 motor in it and that combo needs straight line ability and stock the CRF was lacking it. Fl is real fine sand.

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Wow guys thanks for all the tips. The shock is getting serviced but I knew there was something else I did to the cr250 but couldn't Remember what until someone brought it up. Lowering the forks and setting the rear spring preload softer "raked out" the bike. In essence changing the weight on the front tire made a huge difference in the sand. I would keep lowering the forks in the clamps until it wouldn't stay in the ruts and go back just a hair. The downside to this is head shake and extreme loss in stability at high speeds. I also need to learn how to plow thru a corner with the 4 stroke, with the cr250 it was more point and shoot steering with a spinning rear tire.

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that 96 is a tough act to follow.... for any bike.

but after you become used to the 450 the 96 will feel squishy and squirmy

 

you could try

http://suspensiontuninghelp.moonfruit.com/#/hardpack-moto/4511681582

http://suspensiontuninghelp.moonfruit.com/#/sandy-moto/4511681601

 

dont slam the throttle shut on the 4t. you need to be smooth.

or get a slipper clutch like an adige aptc or hinson btl if you have to have that 2t coasting.

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also run a long enough chain so your at the back 1/3 of the adjustment.  longer is better in the sand.

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OP, i did the same thing just last month. 

I traded my 02 CR250 for a 05 CRF450R....and i dont regret it one bit (besides the maintenance costs of course).

obviously with the CRs we didnt have any engine braking....as we do with the 450. so that in itself will make it feel completely different in regards to the suspension. 

i ride mostly desert, Ocotillo Wells and Superstition Mountain, with the occasional Glamis sand...and besides a paddle for the soft sand, i think the Maxxis Desert Cross IT is one of the best rear tires i have ever ridden. I also like the Dunlop brands but find myself always going back to the Maxxis. 

as for the front, try running a 90 instead of an 80. that in itself makes a huge difference. 

 

get your rear shock fixed and then just play with the settings on the suspension, but dont think you will ever eliminate that front end dive now that you have engine braking. 

also in regards to the steering damper, I ran a Scotts damper on my CR250 for years...and it definitely made a difference. i will eventually get another one for my 450, but i didnt notice my 450 all that twitchy in 4th gear on the open washes. however i didnt make it much into 5th gear since it was my first ride and was trying to get used to it, so that could be a whole nother story.... :ride:

Edited by imd450

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Push the fork down flush with the triple clamp. Set the sag to 102mm. Open the high speed on the shock to 2 turns out. Close the rebound clicker on the shock to about 8 out and it'll be nice and stable in the dunes. Rebound isnt that big of a deal in the dunes, unless its too fast.

 

Ive ridden dunes for a couple decades. Thats basically my setup when in the sand. Stay on the throttle in turns on the thumper and it'll turn like a two stroke. You can play with the throttle a little, on entry. Back it off, the front will set, then back on, the front will lift right back up. The main difference is the two stroke would spin the tire, the thumper will carry the front easier. And you dont need more than a 6 paddle. Dont be afraid to lean it over and throw that big ass wave of sand off the front, just stay on the throttle :smirk:

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And you dont need more than a 6 paddle. Dont be afraid to lean it over and throw that big ass wave of sand off the front, just stay on the throttle :smirk:

 

 

holy shite! a 6 cup paddle on a fo-fiddy????

 

 

isnt that a little under-cupped ?  :lol:

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Push the fork down flush with the triple clamp. Set the sag to 102mm. Open the high speed on the shock to 2 turns out. Close the rebound clicker on the shock to about 8 out and it'll be nice and stable in the dunes. Rebound isnt that big of a deal in the dunes, unless its too fast.

 

Ive ridden dunes for a couple decades. Thats basically my setup when in the sand. Stay on the throttle in turns on the thumper and it'll turn like a two stroke. You can play with the throttle a little, on entry. Back it off, the front will set, then back on, the front will lift right back up. The main difference is the two stroke would spin the tire, the thumper will carry the front easier. And you dont need more than a 6 paddle. Dont be afraid to lean it over and throw that big ass wave of sand off the front, just stay on the throttle :smirk:

Hey Shawn are you still on a 03 ? What happened to your CR 500?

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