Hot pig

[E4x4Eric]

I need a straight answer and I searched already about keeping the enging cool some people don't use engine cooler and some use it and swears that I should use an oil cooler. Should I use it and what's the most affordable way to cool the engine? I live in Texas. I also noticed a lot of heat comming from the engine at a stop light Thanks,

[GillhamProformance]

Oil cooler

[condershire]

Affordable is going to be relative, you get what you pay for...  I installed a Sutton oil cooler (~$275.00) and dropped my temps 20~25 degrees.  The "Big Fin" head is around ~$250.00 from XR's Only.  Dropped temps an EASY 30~35 degrees.

 

Prior to purchasing the Sutton cooler, I used a Jagg 3110 cooler with a custom mount so all told I was out around ~$125.00.  These motors run HOT and I still dropped a valve seat with the oil cooler.  This is in Albuquerque, NM, and the seat dropped during a warmer part of winter, so a cooler alone is no guarantee against excessive head temperatures.

 

This is very unscientific but I have noted that the oil cooler seemed to help more with "stop and go" driving, the "Big Fin" REALLY helped on the freeway and while moving.  Average temperature during my 17 mile commute (one way) is 200~210.

 

It is always easier to spend someone else's money, but I have both, and having lived in Texas (not sure what part you are in, I lived in Fort Worth, summer was EXTREMELY hot), I'm going to recommend both...  You can do it one at a time, get the oil cooler now, and when you do your top end, have the fins welded on...

[garthr]

Affordable is going to be relative, you get what you pay for...  I installed a Sutton oil cooler (~$275.00) and dropped my temps 20~25 degrees.  The "Big Fin" head is around ~$250.00 from XR's Only.  Dropped temps an EASY 30~35 degrees.

 

Prior to purchasing the Sutton cooler, I used a Jagg 3110 cooler with a custom mount so all told I was out around ~$125.00.  These motors run HOT and I still dropped a valve seat with the oil cooler.  This is in Albuquerque, NM, and the seat dropped during a warmer part of winter, so a cooler alone is no guarantee against excessive head temperatures.

 

This is very unscientific but I have noted that the oil cooler seemed to help more with "stop and go" driving, the "Big Fin" REALLY helped on the freeway and while moving.  Average temperature during my 17 mile commute (one way) is 200~210.

 

It is always easier to spend someone else's money, but I have both, and having lived in Texas (not sure what part you are in, I lived in Fort Worth, summer was EXTREMELY hot), I'm going to recommend both...  You can do it one at a time, get the oil cooler now, and when you do your top end, have the fins welded on...

i would agree, but with an air cooled engine at a stop light and no air movement, it doesnt matter wether its air or water cooled, theres no cooling going on, so try to avoid long idling stops when possible, or shut it off. oil coolers and big fins are great for getting rid of heat, i also have both, but they need air moving to work.

[garthr]

i have also heard of a paint that has heat conductive properties. its supposed to transfer heat better to the air than unpainted aluminum. havent tried this and dont have anymore info

 

[Onederer]

The cost to have the big fin head also needs to include gaskets at the least. The head, rocker cover and head pipe gaskets will have to be replaced. If the work is done by a shop to remove and reinstall the head after the big fin modification, there will be labor cost.

 

The Sutton oil cooler can be installed by almost anyone with basic tools and the ability to read instructions (which are great). It can also be bypassed or the air flow blocked during the winter so the engine gets up to the proper temp.

 

Both are great ways to increase the engine life for anything over "normal" riding and both are probably needed for serious single track riding during the summer. The oil cooler is the easier and less expensive of the two.

 

Using the clutch a lot is going to heat up the oil even more. Riding technical single track or getting stuck in stop-&-go traffic is going to put more heat into the oil from the clutch. Stop-&-go traffic is even hard on liquid cooled engines as witnessed by coolant overflow during the hottest part of the summer. There is nothing better than an accurate temperature gauge in that situation; an ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure.

[HeadTrauma]

It would help knowing the exact bike model in question.

[E4x4Eric]

It would help knowing the exact bike model in question.

2002 XR650L

[condershire]

The cost to have the big fin head also needs to include gaskets at the least. The head, rocker cover and head pipe gaskets will have to be replaced. If the work is done by a shop to remove and reinstall the head after the big fin modification, there will be labor cost.

 

The Sutton oil cooler can be installed by almost anyone with basic tools and the ability to read instructions (which are great). It can also be bypassed or the air flow blocked during the winter so the engine gets up to the proper temp.

 

Both are great ways to increase the engine life for anything over "normal" riding and both are probably needed for serious single track riding during the summer. The oil cooler is the easier and less expensive of the two.

 

Using the clutch a lot is going to heat up the oil even more. Riding technical single track or getting stuck in stop-&-go traffic is going to put more heat into the oil from the clutch. Stop-&-go traffic is even hard on liquid cooled engines as witnessed by coolant overflow during the hottest part of the summer. There is nothing better than an accurate temperature gauge in that situation; an ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure.

 

Only the head gasket is needed.  I've re-used my valve cover gasket several times, there is a fellow, Steve (mcma111) on ADVrider who details the process, works extremely well with no leaks!  The exhaust gaskets can be re-used without issue as well.  I was nervous removing the head the first time, afterwards I wondered why, extremely easy!

[Onederer]

Only the head gasket is needed.  I've re-used my valve cover gasket several times,....

 

I've reused the rocker cover gasket too, but if a shop does the work they won't. It's worth noting that the rocker cover also holds the camshaft bearings in place and is the upper portion of the center cam journal. A thicker or thinner gasket than what is intended to go there may cause problems.

 

The header gaskets cheap enough that I wouldn't want to risk doing it twice. The fewer times the exhaust studs have a wrench on them, the better.

[condershire]

Does the heat from the welding distort the valve seats and o-rings under the guides?

On mine it did not, I sent mine to XR's Only for (1) valve seat replacement.  They also replaced (4) valves, performed a valve job, and added the big fins...

[condershire]

I've reused the rocker cover gasket too, but if a shop does the work they won't. It's worth noting that the rocker cover also holds the camshaft bearings in place and is the upper portion of the center cam journal. A thicker or thinner gasket than what is intended to go there may cause problems.

 

The header gaskets cheap enough that I wouldn't want to risk doing it twice. The fewer times the exhaust studs have a wrench on them, the better.

I considered this issue as well.  If you carefully inspect the valve cover gasket, you'll note ZERO sealing material (only the steel portion) in the area of the center cam journal on both sides of the gasket, thus, any potential issues with cam to bushing clearances are unaffected.  Apparently, the engineers at Honda considered the potential issues with this and designed accordingly.

 

I use anti-seize on the exhaust studs, I was concerned about over-torqueing myself but if you do not "ham fist" it, I doubt there will be issues...

[HeadTrauma]

Those clearances between the head and head cover are why you should never, EVER use fiber head cover gaskets for an RFVC. I wish they weren't even on the market, but as the saying goes, "there is nothing that can't be made cheaper and worse."

 

2002 XR650L

 

In that case, the cheapest options for a cooler-running engine are to leave the wind wings on and to slightly richen the mixture. After that, either big fins or an oil cooler are options. An oil cooler can be done less expensively and increases oil capacity while big fins don't really have anything to leak or fail. It's unlikely that both a cooler and fins would be needed as either modification usually provides ample cooling.

[garthr]

i was quite adamant about cooling things off. heres another idea.the oil cooler. i split some 5/16 fuel line to put over the external oil line to the head. a little insulation for this exposed head feed line, running between the exhaust and cylinder. theres of heat already without adding more on its way to the camshaft. 

[garthr]

i was quite adamant about cooling things off. heres another idea.the oil cooler. i split some 5/16 fuel line to put over the external oil line to the head. a little insulation for this exposed head feed line, running between the exhaust and cylinder. theres of heat already without adding more on its way to the camshaft. 

[Onederer]

Scott Summers used a XR250R oil cooler on his race bike. The thing about race bikes is they are always moving.

 

I just went for a road ride on my XL600R which has a Sutton cooler. I can't say enough good about it, it's that good.

 

If only during the winter I could run a dryer tube from it to under my clothes.......double duty.

[Onederer]

Wouldn't be a problem at all if the engine had a big fan in front of it.

 

[E4x4Eric]

I picked up a power steering cooler from Napa and got some flat bars for brackets for less than 50 dollars. I'll post pics later.

[E4x4Eric]

Let me know what yall think before I run the oil line? Thanks.

 

Edited May 4, 2014 by E4x4Eric

[Onederer]

If that strap is aluminum, you should keep an eye on it for cracks because there is no other support and vibration will not be kind to it.

Does that cooler have a turbulator inside the tube? Fluid friction against the walls of the tube prevents all of the fluid from being exposed to the walls which means the cooler is not efficent as it could be for the size. A turbulator will help with that and it is usually just a piece of flat material shaped into a spiral and inserted into the tube. It will help regardless, but may not work as well as other cooler designs of with the same surface area.

If you had a way to measure the oil temp before and after would be the only way to gauge the effectivness of the cooler.