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2014 CRF450 Fork and Shock Valving

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Hey Guys, Has anyone taken apart their 2014's forks or shock and documented the valving stacks? I've rode my bike 3 times and the Midvalve needs to be fixed ASAP. Also if anyone has played with their midvalve found a good balance between stiff enough to solve excessive diving during braking, while still flowing enough oil to be plush and not have cavitation on rebound, I'd be very interested in what you have done. I appreciate any information that anyone can scrape up.  

 

also it seems to me that shock actually has too much high speed damping? i'm 180 on a stock spring 110 mm sag C 11 out R 14 out HSC 1 3/4 out (which for me seems insanely under damped for a stock Honda KYB shock) pehaps its just so unbalanced due to the fork issues that it seems ok? Anyway I'm a Northeast guy ride Open A and +25A  Thanks Guys!

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Shock does have too much HSC. I keep adding 1T of shock spring preload until the bike wants to turn, usually ends up around 100-103mm and works for me, a heavy Vet. Am.

Edited by Eddie8v

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Hey Guys, Has anyone taken apart their 2014's forks or shock and documented the valving stacks? I've rode my bike 3 times and the Midvalve needs to be fixed ASAP. Also if anyone has played with their midvalve found a good balance between stiff enough to solve excessive diving during braking, while still flowing enough oil to be plush and not have cavitation on rebound, I'd be very interested in what you have done. I appreciate any information that anyone can scrape up.  

 

also it seems to me that shock actually has too much high speed damping? i'm 180 on a stock spring 110 mm sag C 11 out R 14 out HSC 1 3/4 out (which for me seems insanely under damped for a stock Honda KYB shock) pehaps its just so unbalanced due to the fork issues that it seems ok? Anyway I'm a Northeast guy ride Open A and +25A  Thanks Guys!

 

How much float is in the mid? Seems like the standard Honda MO is to offer the stock fork with about 50% too much float forcing you to close up the dang clicker, then you slam into the mid like a block wall...

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Yep, add another smallest-diameter shim to reduce the float and the forks are good.

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Guys I'm thinking of adding one more 27x.1 and a 26x.1 this should decrease the float by .2 and stiffen up the midvalve.

Revised stack is as follows

5 27x.1

1 26x.1

1 24x.1

1 20x.1

1 13x.1 -> clamp shim.

Yep, add another smallest-diameter shim to reduce the float and the forks are good.

Eddie are you saying to add an additional 13x.3? I could see this decreasing the float but not necessarily stiffening? Or is the decrease in float enough

Edited by D3Moto43

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Float and stiffness are two different aspects of MV tuning. By reducing float (adding 1 shim on the bottom) you're making it work earlier than before, so the fork will ride higher in the stroke. Making it stiffer as well as reducing float is really double-duty in the stiffness department. Depends on what you like as a rider, but the 2014 fork is a bit stiffer than the 2013 and adding the 1 smaller shim to decrease float changes things a lot more than you might imagine. Try one way and if you don't like it, try another. Or do 1 fork at a time so the change is only half as drastic, I do that a lot.

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Float and stiffness are two different aspects of MV tuning. By reducing float (adding 1 shim on the bottom) you're making it work earlier than before, so the fork will ride higher in the stroke. Making it stiffer as well as reducing float is really double-duty in the stiffness department. Depends on what you like as a rider, but the 2014 fork is a bit stiffer than the 2013 and adding the 1 smaller shim to decrease float changes things a lot more than you might imagine. Try one way and if you don't like it, try another. Or do 1 fork at a time so the change is only half as drastic, I do that a lot.

Thanks Ed. Will test both ways and let you know where I end up. I didn't ride a 13 but my 14 is bottoming everywhere so Imo the fork is way to soft. I definitely see your point of decreasing float via thicker clamp shim. Thanks for everyone's help.

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Fork is garbage as-is on a 450 with a fast and/or heavy rider. Not bad on a CRF250R and great on a 250AF or 500AF.

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I got Mx Tech psf to sff kit      fork a great over stock.   I also have MB1 revalve frist, they were better then stock but very harsh. 

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Firming up the mid/bringing it on sooner will allow you to run the clicker further out (more free flowing oil) so you get the front wheel traction without it blowing through the stroke.

 

Adding the clamp will bring it on sooner but not firmer. You can make extremely subtle changes by playing with where you add. Like if you added a single 24, you close the float, and add a little high speed so it'll keep from blowing through even with the clickers backed out so its supple over trail junk type stuff.

 

Im fairly certain most suspension tuners are on a huge dose of anti psycotic drugs.

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True, adding the clamp doesn't "stiffen" the MV stack per se, but it is a firmer/stiffer MV as the stack is more active than before, so you will ride higher in the stroke than before. How much depends on the reduction in float (the before vs after float, really) and the MV stack itself, of course.

Edited by Eddie8v

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Men,

 

After a considerable amount of research and fellow rider feedback my midvalve stack is going to look as follows.

 

3 27x.1 -> soften up initial part of travel
1 24x.1
1 20x.1

1 18x.1 -> decrease float by .1 add some high speed
2 13x.1 -> clamp shim. decrease float by .1

 

I softened up the low speed MV because i wanted it to be as supple as i can for the initial part of travel, assuming the reduction in float of 0.2 will hold it up in the stoke better curing the blow through problem. The addition of High Speed is to help handle the crazy big breaking bumps we get here in the northeast.

 

If i like this i will most likely end up softening the low speed stack on the base valve and adding some high-speed to that as well.  whats your thoughts on FC oil lock rings?

 

anyone have ideas for the shock? Once i get the forks where i want, i'll start on the shock. 

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Not sure what you could have based your research on, but that stack is horribly softer than the stock stack! You would have a horrible time riding with it as it's MUCH softer than the OEM stack.

You have 1 less shim so there is 0.1mm MORE float than the OEM stack. And your stack is much softer than the OEM stack. You're going totally in the wrong direction if you want to keep the forks higher in the stroke!!!

Please listen to what I told you. Add 1 smallest clamp shim and/or add 1 more top 27mm shim... You're making it much more complicated than it is. And where did the 26mm shim go? Waaaaaay too soft.

Men,

After a considerable amount of research and fellow rider feedback my midvalve stack is going to look as follows.

3 27x.1 -> soften up initial part of travel

1 24x.1

1 20x.1

1 18x.1 -> decrease float by .1 add some high speed

2 13x.1 -> clamp shim. decrease float by .1

I softened up the low speed MV because i wanted it to be as supple as i can for the initial part of travel, assuming the reduction in float of 0.2 will hold it up in the stoke better curing the blow through problem. The addition of High Speed is to help handle the crazy big breaking bumps we get here in the northeast.

If i like this i will most likely end up softening the low speed stack on the base valve and adding some high-speed to that as well. whats your thoughts on FC oil lock rings?

anyone have ideas for the shock? Once i get the forks where i want, i'll start on the shock.

Edited by Eddie8v

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Not sure what you could have based your research on, but that stack is horribly softer than the stock stack! You would have a horrible time riding with it as it's MUCH softer than the OEM stack.

You have 1 less shim so there is 0.1mm MORE float than the OEM stack. And your stack is much softer than the OEM stack. You're going totally in the wrong direction if you want to keep the forks higher in the stroke!!!

Please listen to what I told you. Add 1 smallest clamp shim and/or add 1 more top 27mm shim... You're making it much more complicated than it is. And where did the 26mm shim go? Waaaaaay too soft.

 

 Eddie, sorry for the typo the 13's are .1 and .3 and the the 18 is not in there. I copy and pasted from the wrong sheet, lol this is what happens when your on thumper talk during a meeting. see below.

 

3 27x.1 -> soften up initial part of travel

1 26x.1 -> soften up initial part of travel decrease Float by .1

1 24x.1

1 20x.1

1 13x.1 -> clamp shim. decrease float by .1

1 13x.3 

 

Totally agree the stack i sent out would have been miserable to ride. hopefully no one uses that. 

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Still waaaaay too soft, IMO, going from 8 effective shims down to only 6 with a 0.1mm tighter float. Adding or removing even only 1 of the 27mm face shims makes much more of a difference than you think. Please be careful with 2 x 27mm face shims being removed, that's a huge change percentage wise!!!

Just try adding a 13 x 0.1 clamp and that's it. Trust me. Or maybe add 1 extra other shim instead, but what you're proposing will do the opposite of what you're looking for.

Eddie, sorry for the typo the 13's are .1 and .3 and the the 18 is not in there. I copy and pasted from the wrong sheet, lol this is what happens when your on thumper talk during a meeting. see below.

3 27x.1 -> soften up initial part of travel

1 26x.1 -> soften up initial part of travel decrease Float by .1

1 24x.1

1 20x.1

1 13x.1 -> clamp shim. decrease float by .1

1 13x.3

Totally agree the stack i sent out would have been miserable to ride. hopefully no one uses that.

Edited by Eddie8v

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really?? stock stack is as follows. according to RG3

 

4 27x.1 

1 24x.1
1 20x.1

1 13x.3 

 

if this is not correct please let me know. because i really just trusted they were correct.  

 

ps. i think the stock stacks should be in every service manual so you don't have to reverse engineer each stack recursively. 

 

however i do have the shims to create the following stack

 

5 27x.1 

1 24x.1
1 20x.1
2 13x.3

 

this will decrease total float by .4 

Edited by D3Moto43

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Still waaaaay too soft, IMO, going from 8 effective shims down to only 6 with a 0.1mm tighter float. Adding or removing even only 1 of the 27mm face shims makes much more of a difference than you think. Please be careful with 2 x 27mm face shims being removed, that's a huge change percentage wise!!!

Just try adding a 13 x 0.1 clamp and that's it. Trust me. Or maybe add 1 extra other shim instead, but what you're proposing will do the opposite of what you're looking for.

 

ok i see what your saying and i'll give it a try. Thanks for the info I'm really just a novice at suspension tuning, mostly because i never get what i want from the big box companies. id rather learn how to do it myself. so anything i can learn from anyone is really a big help. Thanks again man. i'll let you know how the stack you suggested stack feels.

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The last thing you want to do is ease up the mid valve. The issue is that its too soft already. If you were to try that 3 27's even if you closed the float up...it'd blow through the stroke on jump faces and you'd absolutely hate it in the whoops.

 

If you were to just add the one 27, leave the clamp as is, you'd see a huge difference, with just the one shim. It'll blow your mind what a difference it'll make. Start your clickers about 4 out from where you would normally if thats what you end up doing. The rebound should still be pretty close.

 

5 27x.1 

1 24x.1
1 20x.1
1 13x.3

 

try this. If you wanted to just try something sometime, throw a 26 behind the stack of 27s. Hang on to your hat though. Thats a mid that you could almost run in amature SX

 

When you open up the clickers, you get an oil transfer in both directions, this is good. Better traction over the crap that unsettles the front on turn in and while in the corner.

 

Here's the kicker to this. Getting the suspension set up that inspires confidence will cut your lap times dramatically...Youre going faster..guess what happens then? Its suddenly not stiff enough again.....where's that prozac..

 

I cant even count the number of times Ive had my fork off and apart. Same with the shock. I bought a nitrogen setup to save the gas money from driving to RG3 where I had it charged at first...

 

Just wait...it wont be long before youre eyeballing that base valve...

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Make sure to video the shock bleeding when you get to that point so everyone can enjoy it.

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