Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

No spark stator pickup not generating signal

Recommended Posts

Hi All

I am having a devil of an electrical problem with my Drz-400 and I wonder if I can get your views.

I had an intermittent cutting out and backfire problem after riding 20-120 minutes and brought it to a Suzuki dealer. They checked the valves, did a leak down and compression test, cleaned the carb.

I thought it was fixed and it sat for nine months before I let a buddy ride it at Hollister.

The problem reappeared. I bought a coil and high tension lead and used CDI but the problem was still there. At this point it started right up and and ran fine up and down the street but started cutting out after 4-6 miles of riding.

I took it to a dirt bike focused shop and told them that if they couldn't find anything to replace the stator. They did but then could not get any spark. They gave up.

Right now it won't get spark.

I disconnected the kill sw and clutch disconnect so they are not affecting anything.i homed out every wire to the CDI and checked the wires for grounds shorts and wear.

I looked at the stator and saw they had the pickup in upside down and fixed that but no spark.

I can get a spark by manually plugging in either stator and rubbing the pickup coil past the magnet on the flywheel but it won't spark when installed while cranking.

If you have any ideas I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me see if I understand. replacement coil, CDI box and stator.  The coil and CDi are used.  Stator is new, (what brand?) and it was installed improperly by a shop Hmm.  Not all new stators are highly reliable.  Problem now is too many variables. It is hard to isolate the problem.  Is the CDI box a Suzuki part? is it for the model you have which you have not identified.  E vs S/SM are different. If S/SM, what is the status of the safety interlocks?

 

I would start by looking at the stator again.  Are all the metal wire guards in place and the wires not damaged from rubbing the flywheel?

Rule out interlock problems. 

Start trading parts from a motorcycle that runs.

Coils and CDI boxes almost never fail if they are OEM Suzuki.  Stator failures are common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me see if I understand. replacement coil, CDI box and stator.  The coil and CDi are used.  Stator is new, (what brand?) and it was installed improperly by a shop Hmm.  Not all new stators are highly reliable.  Problem now is too many variables. It is hard to isolate the problem.  Is the CDI box a Suzuki part? is it for the model you have which you have not identified.  E vs S/SM are different. If S/SM, what is the status of the safety interlocks?

 

I would start by looking at the stator again.  Are all the metal wire guards in place and the wires not damaged from rubbing the flywheel?

Rule out interlock problems. 

Start trading parts from a motorcycle that runs.

Coils and CDI boxes almost never fail if they are OEM Suzuki.  Stator failures are common.

Thanks for responding...

I ruled out interlok problems by disconnecting the clutch and kill sw and ohmed out the wires to the CDI to ensure they are not grounded.

The stator is new - not sure of the brand -it cost $100.

Using the original CDI and coil I can get a spark when I activate the CDI by touching either the original or new stator signal sensor to the magnet of the stator or the magnet on the flywheel.

 

The metal guards are in place for the stator and there is no rubbing or evidence of rubbing in the past.

The old stator looks good and does not smell burnt or anything.

 

Just to be sure - the stator signal pickup has a round metal part and that should be facing the flywheel magnets - correct? SImilar to a bicycle wheel sensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please identify what model and year motorcycle we are talking about.

 

 

I ruled out interlok problems by disconnecting the clutch and kill sw and ohmed out the wires to the CDI to ensure they are not grounded.-----If we are taking S/SM you have not ruled out interlock problems. The sidestand interlock works off the green wire (S/SM) in the larger CDI connector.  The clutch interlock has noting to do with sparks, just with cranking. As for the kill switch I need to know if it is E or S/SM.  You really can not disconnect the kill switch on the S/SM.

The stator is new - not sure of the brand -it costicon1.png $100.------No top quality stator costs $100.  $100 is Chinese ebay or used.

Using the original CDI and coil I can get a spark when I activateicon1.png the CDI by touching either the original or new stator signal sensor to the magnet of the stator or the magnet on the flywheel.-----OK. however there is one of the internal coils that also needs to communicate with the CDI.  I'm not sure what your test means other then it is capable of make 1 spark at a random time.

The old stator looks good and does not smell burnt or anything.------OK, but not proof it works

Just to be sure - the stator signal pickup has a round metal part and that should be facing the flywheel magnets - correct-------Yes

SImilar to a bicycle wheel sensor.------Hmm well kind of. A bicycle is a magnetic switch, no voltage sensing.  Motorcycles use a coil of fine wire to generate a voltage as the magnet passes. (Hall affect I think is the proper term)

  •  
Edited by Noble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please identify what model and year motorcycle we are talking about.

 

 

I ruled out interlok problems by disconnecting the clutch and kill sw and ohmed out the wires to the CDI to ensure they are not grounded.-----If we are taking S/SM you have not ruled out interlock problems. The sidestand interlock works off the green wire (S/SM) in the larger CDI connector.  The clutch interlock has noting to do with sparks, just with cranking. As for the kill switch I need to know if it is E or S/SM.  You really can not disconnect the kill switch on the S/SM.

It's a 2000 Drz E with Baka kit. No side stand sw.

The stator is new - not sure of the brand -it costicon1.png $100.------No top quality stator costs $100.  $100 is Chinese ebay or used.

Using the original CDI and coil I can get a spark when I activateicon1.png the CDI by touching either the original or new stator signal sensor to the magnet of the stator or the magnet on the flywheel.-----OK. however there is one of the internal coils that also needs to communicate with the CDI.  I'm not sure what your test means other then it is capable of make 1 spark at a random time. It proves that the coil,plug, wiring and CDI work.

The old stator looks good and does not smell burnt or anything.------OK, but not proof it works

Both staters ohm out per the manual - no shorts or opens.

Just to be sure - the stator signal pickup has a round metal part and that should be facing the flywheel magnets - correct-------Yes

SImilar to a bicycle wheel sensor.------Hmm well kind of. A bicycle is a magnetic switch, no voltage sensing.  Motorcycles use a coil of fine wire to generate a voltage as the magnet passes. (Hall affect I think is the proper term)

How does the signal pickup work then? I thought that as the flywheel magnet passes the pickup, it generates a small voltage which triggers the CDI.

What would prevent that from working when installed? With the stator installed in the cover, if I touch the magnet from the other stator to it the CDI sparks. Then I put the cover in place and crank it and no spark.

  •  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to rebember that some Stators has the connectors the "wrong" way from supplier, and need to be switched.

Maybe a shot in the dark, but shouldn't take long to check out

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

f2dog has a point on the replacement stator

 

 

I thought that as the flywheel magnet passes the pickup, it generates a small voltage which triggers the CDI.-----Yes that is correct.

What would prevent that from working when installed? With the stator installed in the covericon1.png, if I touch the magnet from the other stator to it the CDI sparks. Then I put the cover in place and crank it and no spark.-------I don't know.  There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. As I said before, there is one of the internal coils that feeds information the the CDI as well as the external coil.  The power generating part of the stator does not even have to be plugged in, but the 2 coils that work with the CDI have to function.

 

Is the CDI box you have installed an E model CDI box?  A S/SM box with not work without modification to the wiring. (A quick fix is to hold the kill button down)
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trigger coil is on the outside of the flywheel and produces a pulse when the bump on the flywheel comes past via magnetic induction.

 

Signal coil is wound on top of one of the generator posts and provides a count to the CDI.  It is AC if you are testing.  Since the number of magnets is known the CDI is programmed that every X pulses is a full rotation of the crank.  This gets used for timing the capacitor charge to avoid firing while charging.  There is a spark every rotation of the crank, one on power and one on exhaust stroke.  When the signal coil has a problem typically it will spark but at the wrong time, or will start to miss badly as the rpms try to increase.

 

Have you tried to run with the charging portion of the stator unplugged?  That is the plug under the Regulator/Rectifier with 3 yellow wires.  If there is a short between windings unplugging this can eliminiate a ground loop and it sometimes will run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to rebember that some Stators has the connectors the "wrong" way from supplier, and need to be switched.

Maybe a shot in the dark, but shouldn't take long to check out

Yeah , I received a Stator with the same problem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you confirmed there is 12v at the CDI?  The wires have been known to break where they pass the headtube from the repeated flexing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah , I received a Stator with the same problem

 

 

 

I seem to remember that being the black and white reversed?  Thus the polarity of the signal coil pulses being out of step with the trigger coil?  Solution is to switch them by removing from connector at CDI and reinserting correctly.  *babbled semi-coherently to no-one in particular*

Edited by slowriding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem solved - for now.

 

The lack of spark was due to the the aftermarket Stator signal wires being reversed. It turns out the color code is correct and they ohm out but they were incorrectly installed. I called the supplier Eletrolux and they knew of that issue but were unaplogetic even though it cost the shop man days of time.

 

I still need to run the bike for over an hour to see if the original cutting out issue reappears.

 

Thanks to all for the suggestions - two of you got it right! It just goes to show the power of the Thumpertalk community. Thanks guys!

Edited by Norcal Factory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×