Octane boost

[PoCoBob]

I friend and I are planning a ride that will take us past what a tank of fuel will go. At the turnaround point there is a very small community that has a gas station. I don't want to gamble there will be high octane available so I want to take some octane boost with me. Carrying a gas can along doesn't work. Has anyone used any of the octane boosts that are available in their bike? I read some old threads that say it's bad for your bike but I can't see how using it once could hurt anything. I have a 2012 WR250F

 

Thanks.

[Bricktop72]

When a can of octane boost says it raises octane one point, they mean .1 not 1.0

So if you put 87 swill in with booster you'd have 87.1 octane.

Bring extra fuel or get a larger tank.

[adam728]

Safest bet it to bring a quart of toluene. It's around 114-116 octane. 

 

If you put in 2 gallons of 87 octane and 1 qt of 114 octane toluene you'll end up with 2.25 gallons of 90 octane. You can mix toluene pretty well up to 25% by volume, but carrying more than a quart would probably be cumbersome. 

 

 

And yes, most octane boosters give you a few tenths of a point, not full points.  

 

Also, why not call the gas station to find what they carry?  I'm sure Google can find you a phone number. 

[PoCoBob]

If I call the gas station and they have 91 I'm good. If they don't I still have to go through this excerise. I'm sorry but I don't buy the statement it only boosts by point something. In my early riding years I lived in an area where I needed to run octane boost in my IT250. It made a huge difference in how the bike ran and I doubt I would have noticed going from 87 to 87.4.

 

I found this online and based on their numbers I could get away with 3 oz of the stuff. My tank is 2 gal and I need to raise it about 4 points.

 

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/fuel-additives/gasoline/motorcycle-octane-boost/

[Trailryder42]

Per the link you provided:

"When marketing their products, some additive manufacturers have adopted a points system where 10 points equals one octane number. A claim that an additive increases octane 30 points translates into an increase of three octane numbers. This approach is often used only to artificially strengthen marketing claims and is not endorsed by AMSOIL."

Not saying there aren't products out there that will raise octane by the amount you want, you just have to be sure of what is claimed is what is actually what you think you're getting. You say you want to raise it by 4 points, when you should say and mean 4 numbers. 4 points with 87 would be 87.4. By 4 numbers would be 91. That Amsoil product claims actual "numbers".

I found this online and based on their numbers I could get away with 3 oz of the stuff. My tank is 2 gal and I need to raise it about 4 points.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/fuel-additives/gasoline/motorcycle-octane-boost/

Edited May 8, 2014 by Trailryder42

[yz250f_spud]

Have you considered just running 87 octane for that tank? I've ran 89 e10 in my stock yz250f and it barely made a difference in performance.

[Beau 88]

I run klotz R50 premix and klotz nitro , i started adding nitro because i had pinging with 89 octane i had to use one trip , added the nitro the next trip and cured it. Now i add it to every tank i run through both bikes . It's cheap enough and just helps me be assured my engines running tip top.            http://www.jpcycles.com/product/900-643?utm_source=none&utm_term=adwords_labels%3DParts%20and%20adwords_labels%3DChemicals%20%26%20Lubricants&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CPaEzZr4nL4CFU_l7AodNigAFg   Most of the over the counter fuel treatments and octane boosters are mostly alcohol to remove water and in the end it doesn't matter if it's 80 octane as long as you aren't having detonation problems .

Edited May 8, 2014 by Beau 88

[youngztr]

Adding “Octane boost” in a can to 87 RON unleaded fuel is a waste of money.  Period.  Don’t even try.

 

If you run 87 RON unleaded, keep the load factor to a minimum and the RPM’s in the mid-range.

 

About the best “booster” I know of you can buy is Toluene, also known as methyl benzine. You need to buy it from a chemical supplier.   Read the label for its content.  This really isn’t a commercial octane booster, but it will raise the RON of 87 pump fuel about 2 – 2.5 RON points when mixed 20% Toluene and 80% pump fuel.  It is not recommended to mix it any stronger.

 

The stuff in a bottle on the shelf will raise octane less than 1 RON point.

 

The Tetra Ethyl Lead you added to your IT250 in the past is no longer legally available.

 

But really, trying to raise the octane rating of 87 pump fuel is futile.  Most people use octane boost in premium gas when the engine will be under abnormal high RPM loads for short periods of time.

 

If a person is regularly using octane boost in the fuel to prevent detonation under normal use, the “boost” is covering up problems with fuel quality and/or engine condition/tuning.

 

Have a great ride.

Edited May 8, 2014 by youngztr

[PoCoBob]

Per the link you provided:

"When marketing their products, some additive manufacturers have adopted a points system where 10 points equals one octane number. A claim that an additive increases octane 30 points translates into an increase of three octane numbers. This approach is often used only to artificially strengthen marketing claims and is not endorsed by AMSOIL."

Not saying there aren't products out there that will raise octane by the amount you want, you just have to be sure of what is claimed is what is actually what you think you're getting. You say you want to raise it by 4 points, when you should say and mean 4 numbers. 4 points with 87 would be 87.4. By 4 numbers would be 91. That Amsoil product claims actual "numbers".

 

Correct. I am looking to raise it 4 numbers. Based on the chart on their page the example went from 92.6 to 95.6. That would work.

[youngztr]

Correct. I am looking to raise it 4 numbers. Based on the chart on their page the example went from 92.6 to 95.6. That would work.

Yes, but...... notice they started with 92.6 as their base fuel NOT 87 fuel.......  Is there a chart for adding it to 87?

[PoCoBob]

Yes, but...... notice they started with 92.6 as their base fuel NOT 87 fuel.......  Is there a chart for adding it to 87?

No they do not have a chart starting at 87 but why would they. For most of the world you can readily buy 91 anyway. It's only when you have to buy gas in a small native community in the middle of nowhere does this become as issue. If it raises 92 by 3 numbers it will raise 87 by 3 numbers.

[The Spanky]

No they do not have a chart starting at 87 but why would they. For most of the world you can readily buy 91 anyway. It's only when you have to buy gas in a small native community in the middle of nowhere does this become as issue. If it raises 92 by 3 numbers it will raise 87 by 3 numbers.

 

 

 

 

The level of octane boost you get from an additive is very dependent on the chemical makeup of the fuel you started with.

 

I don't care what some sales info on a website says, you aren't going to get a 3 point increase in octane rating from ANY off the shelf octane booster. It's not going to happen.

[RebelRider724]

I ran my 200 on 87 octane pump gas with outboard premix several times.  Its not what i prefer but i have a limited budget.  I never noticed a power difference with premium gas and redline oil.  

[adam728]

The level of octane boost you get from an additive is very dependent on the chemical makeup of the fuel you started with.

 

I don't care what some sales info on a website says, you aren't going to get a 3 point increase in octane rating from ANY off the shelf octane booster. It's not going to happen.

 

The Amsoil stuff is pretty good, it uses n-methylaniline as it's octane boosting ingredient, which has a well proven track record.  

 

Like you state, the base fuel composition plays a huge roll in the octane boosters effectiveness, but getting 2-3 points of real octane increase from n-methylaniline in a 2-3% concentration is pretty standard.  I'm surprised Amsoil's recommended dose is 4 ounces per 4-6 gallons, as the booster itself is only at most 60% n-meth (the rest being mostly kerosene as a carrier).  So at best you are adding 2.4 ounces of it to 4 gallons of gasoline for a concentration of 0.4%, well under the typical 2% or so recommendation. 

 

Now the problem. n-methylaniline is most effective with higher levels of MTBE in fuel. However, many formulations are using the ethanol content to boost octane up rather than MTBE. So this goes back to what Chokey said, the base fuel makeup means a lot! I don't know how large of a difference it is using that additive in a fuel boosted with ethanol rather than MTBE, but there will definitely be a difference. In one you get 3 octane points and other 2? Or 1? Or 0.2? I don't know.  

 

Which is why I go back to my toluene recommendation. It's a much more predictable octane increase as you are literally diluting the base fuel with a higher octane fuel rather than trying to change how free radicals are controlled in the midst of combustion. It would sort of be like trying to make a gallon of white paint green by using very concentrated drops of yellow and blue that still doesn't make it green, but "should" once it dries, verses just diluting the white paint with another half gallon of the same paint that is a dark green. With the second one you can be pretty confident what you are getting, with the first you won't know until you experiment. 

 

I'm still guessing the station probably carries premium. Most small stations will forgo midgrade and just carry regular & premium. 

Edited May 9, 2014 by adam728

[The Spanky]

The Amsoil stuff is pretty good, it uses n-methylaniline as it's octane boosting ingredient, which has a well proven track record.  

 

Like you state, the base fuel composition plays a huge roll in the octane boosters effectiveness, but getting 2-3 points of real octane increase from n-methylaniline in a 2-3% concentration is pretty standard.  I'm surprised Amsoil's recommended dose is 4 ounces per 4-6 gallons, as the booster itself is only at most 60% n-meth (the rest being mostly kerosene as a carrier).  So at best you are adding 2.4 ounces of it to 4 gallons of gasoline for a concentration of 0.4%, well under the typical 2% or so recommendation. 

 

Now the problem. n-methylaniline is most effective with higher levels of MTBE in fuel. However, many formulations are using the ethanol content to boost octane up rather than MTBE. So this goes back to what Chokey said, the base fuel makeup means a lot! I don't know how large of a difference it is using that additive in a fuel boosted with ethanol rather than MTBE, but there will definitely be a difference. In one you get 3 octane points and other 2? Or 1? Or 0.2? I don't know.  

 

Which is why I go back to my toluene recommendation. It's a much more predictable octane increase as you are literally diluting the base fuel with a higher octane fuel rather than trying to change how free radicals are controlled in the midst of combustion. It would sort of be like trying to make a gallon of white paint green by using very concentrated drops of yellow and blue that still doesn't make it green, but "should" once it dries, verses just diluting the white paint with another half gallon of the same paint that is a dark green. With the second one you can be pretty confident what you are getting, with the first you won't know until you experiment. 

 

I'm still guessing the station probably carries premium. Most small stations will forgo midgrade and just carry regular & premium. 

 

 

Very well stated.  ?

[Confederate]

Mid grade is simply a mixture of reg. and premium done at the pump. Gas stations only have two tanks. One regular and one premium.

[PoCoBob]

I thought I would update this thread. On Saturday we finally made the ride. Prior to going we emailed the village to confirm the gas bar would be open and they replied they are there 1 pm to 9 pm on weekends. We got there at 1:45 pm and guess what, they were closed. It's a much smaller village than I had thought, just 12 homes and an active logging operation.  We didn't panic, we had brought a lunch with so we found a spot in the shade and ate while we waited. About 15 minutes later the attendant showed up and informed us there was a problem with the pumps and they would not work in the heat of the day. You think they could have mentioned that in their email! He suggested we come back about 6 pm to see if it had cooled off enough for them to start working. We were screwed! We had ridin 2 1/2 hours there on a logging road through the trees for 85 kms. This was through the mountains where it would get dark fairly early. My buddy doesn't have a light on his bike and this would get us back 4 hours past when we told people to expect us back. Our only chance was to start knocking on doors to see if anyone had a full gas can and would sell us some. The second guy we talked to had just filled his can up the night before because he was expecting this to happen so we filled up from him and got back on time.

 

So to answer the original question, to my surprise they did have premium gas at the gas bar. So if the pumps had been working I would have been fine. As it was the guy we bought the gas from had regular in the can. I had brought 3 oz's of Torco High Octane boost with me so I dumped it in the tank. The bike ran fine on the ride home. Unfortunately the way we filled up I don't know how much gas we used on the trip there so it was just a guess as to how much Torco to add. Before we go on our next ride we'll fill the bikes up at the station so we'll know how much we used on the way back.

 

This is the stuff I bought http://www.torcousa.com/torco_product/un_acce.html

[casualrider1994]

I thought I would update this thread. On Saturday we finally made the ride. Prior to going we emailed the village to confirm the gas bar would be open and they replied they are there 1 pm to 9 pm on weekends. We got there at 1:45 pm and guess what, they were closed. It's a much smaller village than I had thought, just 12 homes and an active logging operation. We didn't panic, we had brought a lunch with so we found a spot in the shade and ate while we waited. About 15 minutes later the attendant showed up and informed us there was a problem with the pumps and they would not work in the heat of the day. You think they could have mentioned that in their email! He suggested we come back about 6 pm to see if it had cooled off enough for them to start working. We were screwed! We had ridin 2 1/2 hours there on a logging road through the trees for 85 kms. This was through the mountains where it would get dark fairly early. My buddy doesn't have a light on his bike and this would get us back 4 hours past when we told people to expect us back. Our only chance was to start knocking on doors to see if anyone had a full gas can and would sell us some. The second guy we talked to had just filled his can up the night before because he was expecting this to happen so we filled up from him and got back on time.

So to answer the original question, to my surprise they did have premium gas at the gas bar. So if the pumps had been working I would have been fine. As it was the guy we bought the gas from had regular in the can. I had brought 3 oz's of Torco High Octane boost with me so I dumped it in the tank. The bike ran fine on the ride home. Unfortunately the way we filled up I don't know how much gas we used on the trip there so it was just a guess as to how much Torco to add. Before we go on our next ride we'll fill the bikes up at the station so we'll know how much we used on the way back.

This is the stuff I bought http://www.torcousa.com/torco_product/un_acce.html

Ive always been quite happy with torco octane boost. Im curious what chokeys opinion on it is.

[Mtrain730]

You got lucky lol. I know I personally would not worry about throwing some lower grade fuel in the tank to get home. I'm guessing your bike doesn't have a built race engine.

[PoCoBob]

You got lucky lol. I know I personally would not worry about throwing some lower grade fuel in the tank to get home. I'm guessing your bike doesn't have a built race engine.

It's a stock motor but I have in the past put 87 in there by mistake and the engine knocked quite badly. I would not have wanted to travel that distance with it knocking like that. Overall the day wasn't that bad, we had a good ride and came home with a story to tell our friends.