Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

'89 wont shift

Recommended Posts

I just bought it. Test ride went well. brought it home, checked jets, installed new tank, sat for about 2 weeks, and now it wont shift.

I rode on the test ride after installing tank, shifted thru all gears, down shifted, and it stuck in 2nd or 3rd. Im not exactly sure which.

Clutch engages and disengages normal, Its like its a single speed. 

 

 

any ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No not many ideas..About the only part of the gearbox you can play around with is inside the clutch cover. There's a sort of arm thing in there from what I recall that you may be able to fiddle with in an attempt to get it out of whatever gear it's stuck in. I doubt it's going to fix anything..Engine would need stripping down to the box to find out what parts causing the problem. Parts fiddlable are 6 and 7 in the below..

 

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2541834&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1987&fveh=132518

Edited by Horri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may need to go here...

IMG_20140311_212727_523_zps4f749de8.jpg

 

Like Horri said, start off by pulling the clutch cover and making sure that the shifter cam has not come loose. Hopefuly that's as deep as you have to go. But, if you do have to "go there"... trannys are fun once you get to know 'em.

IMG_20140310_170937_129_zps60723d78.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im about to get into the cover and see whats up. Ill post pictures. I am worried because my oil is metallic. I assume I will have to go all the way in. It will be my 1st time.

Any tips? Any 'must have' tools. I have your basics, but no specialty tools.

 

What a bummer. I doubt I will get it going before the vacation, the reason I bought it. Would it be a terrible idea to (if its just in the clutch cover) to unjam or fix the problem and still put around colorado? I think I just answered my own question..... Who wants to get stuck in a colorado backroad?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that you are going to get introduced to the innards of your engine. Tearing one down for the first time is a bit daunting, but isn't actually that bad.

  • You will need a flywheel puller. Motion Pro makes one for less than $10... It's a big bolt.
  • An impact wrench is a must have. If you don't have a compressor with enough juice, you can get an electric impact gun.
  • A valve spring compressor (assuming that you'll want to freshen up the valve seals and such while you are at it). Sears makes a good compressor for about $30. DOn't screw around with the overhead compressors that they sell at auto parts places... they will only frustrate you.
  • 3/8 drive torque wrench
  • Beer and patience

Take lots of pictures as you tear it down. It helps when you start reassembly.

 A few threads that might help you out:

 

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713831&highlight=xr650l+rebuild

My first time into the XRL engine...

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/736888-pig-rescue/?hl=%20pig%20%20rescue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some pictures showing the metallic oil and just a general shot of the bike and engine.

 

Here she is with the big tank mocked up. 

IMG_6221.JPG

 

 

Metallic oil...

IMG_6218.JPG

 

 

Visual of the existing condition. I dont think it looks that used and abused.

IMG_6222.JPG

Edited by markc522

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's 3 oil filters on an XR..That one you have out..then there's another in the frame right about where that lowest point

of the exhaust header bends to go down towards the rear of the bike. That small bolt just below the pipe is an oil drain plug for

the frames oil tank. Your main frame filter is directly below that small bolt and between where the one front frame tube turns

into two. You'll need a good fitting socket to get it out..Don't try any sort of ill fighting spanner or you will simply strip the head

of the nut that is the top of the frame oil filter. There's also another one that slides in inside the clutch cover. Check them all but

certainly check the front frame downtube one for more metal and assorted junk..

 

I agree the externals look good ,,certainly way better than my motor..Looks of course can be deceiving ..

Edited by Horri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I checked the oil screen in the bottom of the frame down tube. It had some shavings. Not a lot, maybe 5 pieces the size of small fingernail clippings.

I am going to pull the left and right covers for a better visual of whats going on.

I will take pictures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im assuming I have to go 'all the way'

 

What are MUST replacements?  Gaskets and seals obviously, but all bearings?

 

 

Im only in the clutch and I will  need 

1 inner housing

2 outer housing

3 pressure plate

4 outer housing guide

 

All out of tollerance.

 

 

 

This is going to get expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems excessive..I've never measured a clutch basket for out of tolerance yet..I'm of the belief that there' a fair amount

of wriggle room with the inner and outer basket bits etc..

 

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2541764&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1989&fveh=132520

 

Most I've ever done is file the ridges out of the inner and outer parts and replaced some fibre plates.

 

Bearings inside..Dunno..My current engine I did the lot bar one which I couldn't get out. Possibly excessive but I didn't know

the motors/parts history and didn't want to be going back in. You may not have to really do any. 80% of the internal bearings you can get 

from a bearing shop for far cheaper than from Honda..Exceptions are one of the mains and one other ..can't recall where the other is now

and I've also forgotten which main you have to purchase from Honda..Cam bearings you can also get from a bearing shop..Get sealed both

sides and pull the seal off one side so it works in whatever posi it goes in on the cam.

Edited by Horri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the right side all apart.  It looks like the kick start gear has contacted the case. Also looks like something (oil pump gear? I have no idea how!?!) hit the case on the other side.

My point is, maybe I found the reason for the metal dust in the oil?

No parts made from steel have visible wear or are broken. No gears have teeth missing or damaged.

The oil screen at the bottom of the motor didnt have any metal shavings at all.

Picture of progress

IMG_6223.JPG

 

Kick start splines look ok

IMG_6227.JPG

 

Does everything look ok here?

IMG_6229.JPG

 

This is the first bit of scoring I found. Any ideas?

IMG_6231.JPG

 

Score around the pulse gen shaft and some dings on the end. Any thing to worry about?

IMG_6232.JPG

 

Looks like I am stuck in second.

IMG_6234.JPG

 

Markings from the clutch plates

IMG_6237.JPG

 

This tool broke the groves.... ooops.

IMG_6241.JPG

 

IMG_6240.JPG

 

All the springs here are loose and just rattle around in there. All other bikes I have messed with are nice and tight. This will be replaced.

IMG_6242.JPG

 

I dont have a 'gear holding tool' so since I will replace the clutch housing, I did this.

IMG_6247.JPG

 

 

Lower oil screen. No debris, just as it came out.

IMG_6251.JPG

 

Scoring on the case at the kick start gear. Any thoughts?

IMG_6252.JPG

 

Scoring at the oil pump and gear. Any thoughts?

IMG_6254.JPG

 

Organization (its way more full now, this was at the beginning)

IMG_6224.JPG

 

 

 

Thats as far as I got tonight. Hopefully I will pull the other side tomorrow. (and find why I cant get out of second)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally,,I have no thoughts on those scoring marks..Possibly just factory imperfections. Oh well,,you'll have to do the baskets now.

Camchain,,hard to tell,,Best replace it and the top tensioner spring..rest of the camchain workings is down to you to decide on..Chain and

top spring are the minimum in my book and also maybe the bottom sprocket it runs on..Hard to say whether it's ok till you get a look at it..

 

Fair enough on the rattly springs in the basket..I got some new ones put in one of my other baskets..Yes it can be done..Unfortunatly some

sprocket around the clutch area/basket in my bikes a different size so I haven't been able to run it as yet as the basket won't go in with this

odd sized sprocket in the way..Teeth won't mesh up right..Bikes a bitsa so you get that..

Edited by Horri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so will the star-shaped piece turn now, if you lever the spring-loaded arm away from it? May need to wriggle the gearshaft to allow gears to mesh.

   Need to figure out if the reason its stuck in gear is deeper than you're in now, like a shiftfork,or the stopper-arm etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I called a highly recommended shop here local and they gave me an estimate of around $700 to rebuild top to bottom. Does this sound accurate? (replacing only parts that need it)

I really wanted to do the job myself. I enjoy it, but I just cant in the time frame I have. (I need the bike ready and tested for colorado at the end of july)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am ok with going over the 700, a little. The problem is I only have just under 2 months. Ive been working 60hrs a week as well as traveling. I just dont think I can do it myself in that time.

The old saying, 'time is money' is true. I dont have the time, its going to cost me money!

 

I dont want to be making a mistake here...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

700 sounds fairly optimistic..It needs to be torn down to the box. Hopefully they know what they're doing and aren't

just bluster..Easy to spend over a 1000+ letting others take control..real easy.,They measure,,it's out of spec,,replace.

Mounts up hell fast..Think I spent well over 1500 on an 82 500 motor..sold it for about that..Big loss.

 

A new clutch basket alone is about 300$..way overly optimistic 700..two guides would be another 100,,chain about 80..

It just goes on getting to be a bit much "I don't think so" to me..

Edited by Horri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of small things normal engine/mechanics/engineers can overlook on XR/XL..eg,,is the auto decomp on the cam good.

Is the small collet and o-ring between the clutch and oil pump when they put it back in..Is the oil pump good..Do they know

how to prime an oil pump,,Do they know how to check oil flow on the first start..We all know these things,,does the shop.

If they are not known for working on older motors or have no one with experience of these engines it'll end in disaster..

Well maybe not disaster but they can easily overlook things that are semi common knowledge..

Edited by Horri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I am second guessing it.

I see some clutch baskets on ebay, I may go that route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so will the star-shaped piece turn now, if you lever the spring-loaded arm away from it? May need to wriggle the gearshaft to allow gears to mesh.

   Need to figure out if the reason its stuck in gear is deeper than you're in now, like a shiftfork,or the stopper-arm etc.

 I agree with Muzz. Any way of figuring out if it's really stuck in gear for a major reason or something "simple". Other than the damage to the clutch basket, maybe you dont need to dive into a full bottom rebuild.... Seems pretty darn clean on the outside for an 89.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_6231.JPG

 

That is likely just tool marks from the removal of flashing at the factory. That area may even be cast solid and opened up by the factory workers when prepping the cases. Those marks are common even though some may be in different places, like under the filter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×