Engine top removal on the frame

[TinchoXR]

Hi fellows,

 

Newbie warning! this is my first time messing with the engine, so this might be a dumb question. I'm trying to remove the top end with the engine on the frame. I removed all the small bolts on the valve cover but the big bolt on the center is giving me trouble. I can't fit a fixed wrench and if i use a tube socket, i can't fit the wrench handle.  

 

Here's a picture of the sucker:

 

Any tips?

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas. Also, since i'll have to remove the cylinder cover as well, any heads up on common problems in the dissasembly will be very appreciated.

 

 

[degunboy]

maybe find a deep socket? shouldnt be too big of a problem with the right tools. tore my topend off in under an hour with all the right hammers and chisels.  ?

[garthr]

10mm box wrench. tap with a hammer if necessary. dont drop stuff into the crankcase.youll have to remove the clutch cover to get to the timing chain/ guides.

[Horri]

There's a trick to getting the head cover off with the engine in the frame..I don't know it ..Undoing that bolt is the easy

bit..The other wonking this or that is the important thing to know as I don't think that bolt can be fully removed without the

wonking..thus the head cover will not come fully off till that bolts out of the way..I may be wrong,,

 

Apart from that I can't think of any majors if you want to get down to the piston..You'll be working in a congested area

trying to undo bolts etc so expect mental stress..

Edited May 13, 2014 by Horri

[mch]

The below with a socket should work...

 

 

. 

 

If that doesn't work, you could also try a socket cap (you plug it into the socket and then use a wrench on it)

 

 

[bradrup]

I had to remove the carburetor and intake boot before I could get the head cover off. You will have to loosen that top bolt on the head cover. You won't be able to completely take it out till you lift up on it and lift the head cover up and roll it over the intake side of the engine.

[Backwoods-Bomber]

What bike is that? Top tube looks close, is it an xr600? Or an xrl.

[reduceus]

I use a super thin (but very strong) ring spanner, never had a problem getting that bolt out.

[TinchoXR]

What bike is that? Top tube looks close, is it an xr600? Or an xrl.

 

Sorry, It's a '92 XR 600 R

 

Thanks everyone for the tips. I thought it was a matter of the right tools. Guess i need to expand my toolset. 

 

You'll probably be hearing from me often, since i'm in unchartered waters now ?

[garthr]

I had to remove the carburetor and intake boot before I could get the head cover off. You will have to loosen that top bolt on the head cover. You won't be able to completely take it out till you lift up on it and lift the head cover up and roll it over the intake side of the engine.

right. have to hold that bolt up while lifting the rocker cover, moving it rearward, rolling it downward over the intake and out it comes. with the boot and carb removed like bradup says. goes back in in reverse. dont forget to put the bolt in the rocker cover first. i just did this to fix a leaking gasket.

[Onederer]

I've got an engine on the bench right now and a  6mm head cover bolt broke off flush in the head. If that happens with the engine in the bike, it's going to be more difficult to repair if even possible.

 

That said, I've taken the cover off with the engine in situ. The carburetor has to come out first and maybe the intake boot. If you're removing the cylinder head and cylinder, you're going to want to use a breaker bar (not just an extension on a ratchet, which can break the ratchet) to get them loose before using a ratchet. Any bolt that doesn't come out easily should have the hole chased with a rethread tool before assembly and all the holes should be cleaned thoroughly to prevent problems during assembly. Any long bolt that twists a lot before loosening should be replaced because there is a greater risk of it breaking during assembly. If there is a bolt that only moves a little and has resistance the whole time, it should be removed just enough to unseat the head and penetrating oil should be sprayed around it and allowed to drain into the hole and soak for at least an hour, overnight if you're getting frustrated.

 

The socket caps mch suggested are a life saver. It's best to use a six sided box wrench on them, as it is for any bolt. Twelve sided box wrenches are generally best for loosened bolts or ones that aren't that tight to start with. A pivot head Gearwrench or general ratcheting wrench and one of those socket caps can make short work of bolts in cramped areas. Just remember you can only run that bolt out so far with any tool on top of it before it's too close to the frame and the tool can't be removed.

 

You can also take the valve inspection caps off and use rubber bands to hold the rockers up so they clear the head easier when removing the cover.

[Onederer]

Don't forget about the auto decomp plunger either. It's a short metal rod with a spring under it, in the head and under the right side of the cam. If that isn't there, there will be problems, especially if it wanders around in the bottom end.

[curtjeaz280]

Unbolting the motor mount bolts and letting the engine drop in the frame a little helps if I remember correctly....

[Backwoods-Bomber]

Unbolting the motor mount bolts and letting the engine drop in the frame a little helps if I remember correctly....

Yup, that helps quite a bit. You can leave the bottom back bolt in( closest to the pro-link) and the motor will pivot forward. This way you can leave your chain on as well as wiring and lower oil lines.

All said and done, I'm not sure if this is actually easier than pulling the engine. But I've done it a couple times anyway.

[valvesrule]

"ring spanner" That would be box end wrench in Americanese Red?

[reduceus]

Not sure Valvesrule, its a spanner that has an open end on one end and a "closed ring" with either 6 or 12 point interior on the other, you may call it a box end, we English name it correctly.... ring spanner lol

[heart_of_darkness]

Yes, ring spanner = box end wrench.

 

And for the argentine original poster, I'd caution you to clean the engine exterior much better before opening the engine.  A tooth brush works well to dislodge all the sand and grit. 

[Onederer]

^^^

 

I don't understand how something that spans a ring can loosen a bolt, mostly because rings are smooth and round, but I do understand that a box shaped tool placed on a box shaped object can engaged it enough to turn it, hence the box end wrench.

 

 

Over here our numbers are a lot sexier too. 11/32 (eleven thirty-seconds) is much sexier than 8.73 mm, just say it out loud and say it's not true.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Onederer

[heart_of_darkness]

I think in commonwealth english "spanner" is a pretty common generic term for many different tools.  Maybe the "ring" refers to the enclosed box end of the wrench, rather than the part on which the spanner gets used.  I'm not sure where our "box" name came from; they probably weren't originally used to open boxes.

 

The funny thing is that while we still use the imperial system of measurements, and the Brits (mostly) don't, some of the standardizations are different.  A British gallon is slightly different than a USA gallon, for instance.  And while Scottish street signs are still denominated in miles, I'm not sure they actually know how to use them.  The first sign will say something is 10 miles away, then a mile later the next sign will say 5 miles away, then fifteen miles later you've arrived.  Or maybe they have a certain sense of humor.

Edited May 14, 2014 by heart_of_darkness

[reduceus]

The "ring" refers to the closed loop of the spanner - it may have a 6 or 12 point interior. Sadly, we in England use both Metric and American Fine sizing systems - not sure why when we we invented the Whitworth thread, the worlds FIRST screw thread standard. 

I know it must be difficult for you American members when you read stuff from members in New Zealand, Australia and The United Kingdom - all English speaking countries -  but just remember that  we invented the language and you did your usual ego trip and changed it.... just as you changed gallons and made them smaller so you could brag about how many gallons of beer you can drink a night.... and it's not even proper beer.....

As for changing road signs, we do it to make tourists think they have travelled further than they really have.

And now I shall go and lay down in a darkened room.....

Edited May 14, 2014 by reduceus