Jump to content
Get that dancing monkey off your back! Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  

2006 Clutch is notchy and neutral is difficult to find when running

Recommended Posts

I haven't had this bike to long. My skills in the clutch area aren't that great. I have checked the clutch basket and it's not notchy. The bike is a bit notchy when shifting gears and finding Neutral is really difficult when running and not much easier when it's not.

I have changed the transmission oil, just wondering if this is something that the is normal with a 250x.

Also when trying to find neutral you think you have found it and then you can hear it click into a gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incorrect clutch adjustment could cause it to do what your describing, make sure you have it adjusted correctly.

 

What kind of oil are you using?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I thought it seemed like it was normal. It's not to bad when riding. It just at lower speeds and stopped that I notice it the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also find it frustrating to get it in neutral when I'm stopped.  I have found it helps to rock it forward and back just a bit when trying to trying to put it in neutral.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the cable is the original, you would be smart to go ahead and put a new one on. You will find the pull to be easier, and smoother, with the new cable.

 

Also, when I had an X I did not care at all for the way the stock clutch engaged. It was almost like a light switch-either it was "in" (released) or "out" (on).. It was very difficult to find that spot where the clutch was just starting to engage.. Almost impossible.. Like you, I had trouble finding neutral with the engine running and basically had to shut the engine off to get the bike in neutral.

 

I put a new cable on it that made the pull much smoother, and the clutch felt lighter with the new cable. Then, I took the factory clutch out-which still looked like new-and replaced it with a Tusk clutch & heavy duty springs. This made a world of difference! I don't know why it made such a drastic change, but it did. The Tusk clutch is SOOOOOOOO much better. You can actually ride the clutch right at that point where it is starting to engage, and it is silky smooth. The Tusk directions say to leave out the dished cushion plates that the factory clutch uses (don't know what they are called) and maybe that is why there is such a drastic difference. The Tusk clutch is cheap, and flat out made a huge difference in how the clutch worked on that bike. Yes, I highly recommend replacing your stock clutch with the Tusk unit. You can always keep your factory clutch and put it back in if you don't like it but I strongly suspect you will love it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting you posted this. I thought neutral was a bit hard to find in my 05 x and shifting not as smooth as i like it. I was running the  diesel oil 20/50 i believe, like some recommend. i switched to auto trans fluid, just plain jane fluid nothing special and neutral is much easier to hit and shifting is much smoother.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was just reading this and even though I have a Yamaha wr250f I talked to some honda guys that said the reason this problem comes about is because of a judder spring. It sits behind the clutch pack. It's two small washer looking things. I was having trouble finding neutral while running and clutch wasn't smooth. So I took their advice and pulled the judder spring and the clutch has been heat for about 15 hours of ride time. I guess this is a honda and Yamaha problem especially in these trail bikes. Anyway sound like kinda the same problem you were having. Just my opinion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Sruiz states-the Tusk kit deletes the judder spring. This is what I believe makes it feel so different in application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an 05 X and run syn ATF in the tranny.  NIce easy shifting and a very smooth clutch, almost like my Trials bike.  I've used GN4 oil in my XR and it was terrible for shifting after a few hours, clutch action wasn't great either; there are better oils for trannies/wet clutches. ATF oils are gear oils for wet clutches which is exactly what our trannies are; gears with a wet clutch.

 

Thick oils have slower clutch hookup and more drag, thinner the opposite.

For a thick oil I recommend a Rotella T or a dino ATF.

For a thinner oil use a syn ATF, or Rotella T6. 

Dextron ATF oils are smoother at lockup than the standard ATF or "F" type ATF, the later two have a quicker lockup.

 

Any JASO-MA engine oil is OK. Do not use a hypoid gear oil or energy saving car oils, clutch slip for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an 05 X and run syn ATF in the tranny.  NIce easy shifting and a very smooth clutch, almost like my Trials bike.  I've used GN4 oil in my XR and it was terrible for shifting after a few hours, clutch action wasn't great either; there are better oils for trannies/wet clutches. ATF oils are gear oils for wet clutches which is exactly what our trannies are; gears with a wet clutch.

 

Thick oils have slower clutch hookup and more drag, thinner the opposite.

For a thick oil I recommend a Rotella T or a dino ATF.

For a thinner oil use a syn ATF, or Rotella T6. 

Dextron ATF oils are smoother at lockup than the standard ATF or "F" type ATF, the later two have a quicker lockup.

 

Any JASO-MA engine oil is OK. Do not use a hypoid gear oil or energy saving car oils, clutch slip for sure.

 

I have been using Rotella T6 in the transmission.  What ATF brand  and type would you recommend?   I would like to give that a shot before I try the heavy duty Tusk clutch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been using Valvoline Dextron VI synthetic, a very thin ATF, almost as thin as the Honda-Montesa recommended syn gear oil.  It worked so well in the Monty that I tried it in the X. Another Honda owner (not X) rode mine yesterday and commented on how smooth it shifted. 

 

Most car engine oils are not JASO-MA so that limits choices. There is some debate regarding Rotella; Shell specs says JASO-MA but nothing on the bottle for the T, T6 says complies.  Lots of folks using both oils, for me I liked the T slightly better for clutch action in my XRs, but I'm running T6 in the X engine and XR because it is a synthetic oil. The XR problem is it is a shared engine/gearbox so the oil has to satisfy both requirements.

 

The following are some oil viscosity data that I collected, the 40C (about 100F) values are closer to oil temps in the gearbox than the 100C (212F) values. The Elf HTX740 is the gear oil recommended by Montesa.

 

Gear Oils................................ @40oC....... @100oC
GRO Gear Extreme 75W*......... 20.............. 5.2
Elf HTX740.syn........................ 21.4........... 7
Valvoline Dextron VI ATF syn.. 29.5........... 6.0
Motul ATF VI*..........................30,5............6.10
Mobile 1 Dextron VI…………. 29.5………. 5.3
Royal Purple Max ATF........... 35.0............. 7.5
Valvoline +4........................... 34.13.......... 7.55
Allison Transynd syn ATF ..... 53.9............ 9.75
Elf HTX735.............................114............17.8
Amsoil 75W-90 syn**……… 130………. 15.6
Amsoil 80W-140 syn**…..… 256………. 26.4
Silkolene Medium 85W-90... 150-340...... 15
Silkolene Light 75W-80......... 100-180..... 15
Silkolene Comp 80W-90........ 100-145.... 15
Silkolene Pro SRG 75........... 100-180..... 11
* info from Trials Central posts.
**  Hypoid gear oil, do not use

 

And for comparison some engine oils, most which should not be used with a wet clutch.

Engine Oils..............Viscosity cSt@40oC..... @100oC.. HTHS mPa.s@150C
Mobil 1 5W-30.......................... 61.7............. 11.0......... 3.1
Mobil 1 10W-30........................ 63................ 10.1......... 3.0
Mobil 1 0w-40**...................... 75................. 13.5......... 3.8 
Shell Rotella T6  syn  5W-40.. 87................ 14.2........ >3.5
Torco T-4  10W-40................ 118................. 15.8....
Shell Rotella T  15W-40........ 120................ 15.5......... >3.5
Mobil 1  15W-50 .................. 125................. 18.0.......... 4.5
Torco T-4SR  syn  20W-50.... 155................. 19.5........ >3.5
Torco T-4  20W-50................ 173................. 20.31...... >3.5
Castrol GTX 10W-30.............. 75................. 11.3......... 2.9
Castrol Syntec  5W-30**......... ...................... 11....
BMW Syn 5W-30**........................................ 12......... >3.5
HTHS is High Temperature High Shear

** meets ACEA A3 spec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to bring back an old thread but I wanted to report back on what I have done that has solved my issue.

Some of the posters recommended different oil and the Tusk heavy duty clutch with springs. I tried different oils, etc. Really the same results.

So I decided this spring to put in the Tusk clutch. This has totally solved the problem. The bike isn't notchy, neutral is a breeze and is easier to start in gear. Best money I have spent, really fairly cheap. My Son really likes the changes!

Edited by RMK800
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also like to know whether the judder spring is removed.  Also, I've heard a few Kawi owners saying the Tusk clutch feels better with the stock springs.  Perhaps better for a Kawi but not for our Hondas???  I'm glad to hear that the jerky shifting is normal for our bikes and that there is a solution--I thought it was me.

Edited by mossman77

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did the Tusk clutch have you keep the judder spring or no?

Jim.

Is that the small internal disk? If that is what your talking about. I believe I did remove that, per the instructions. As an FYI I didn't notice any difference in the clutch pull either. Maybe barely harder... Even if this only lasted two or three years I would buy it again in a heart beat for standard maintenance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting topic that judder spring, and its good to get a few new ideas, when ever I have a tranny that just don't feel right I start with dumping the fluid and loading it with atf type F, its a high detergent oil and  after a ride its freed up a lot of crap in the tranny. the atf comes out black so it makes me think it cleans up the tranny a lot?.

easiest way for me to find nu is to start fishing for it before I come to a stop or after stop rock it a bit but first to nu seems to hook better than second to nu

ease of predictable engagement  chuck that's worth checking out with different atf 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting comments on the judder spring, there is also a judder friction and a judder washer.  Rekluse has you remove all of the judder components. Rekluse also says the clutch noise is caused by worn basket/gear bushings and the fix is an aftermarket basket or a new Honda basket/gear.

 

My understanding is it is suppose to stop judder during clutch engagement. :excuseme:

 

I have a Honda-Montesa 2T Trials bike with a CR250R clutch pack that is the smoothest clutch of any bike I've owned or ridden.

A friend has a Honda-Montesa 4T Trials bike, same size clutch but OEM plates with the judder stuff and the clutch action is abrupt and it has a lot of judder. :confused:

As a side note our CRF250 clutches are the same size as the CR125 clutch, and the CRF450 clutches are the same size as the CR250R clutch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×