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Wiseco or Pro x piston + condrod kit?

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Pro-X is just re-badged OEM.

 

You'll get endless opinions on this, most of them wrong LOL.

 

Cast and forged each have their pros and cons. But in general a forged piston will outlast a cast piston, and is also far less likely to fail by breaking a skirt. Wiseco pistons is all I run.

 

Do a search, the cast versus forged topic has been debated ad nauseum. But take everything you read with a grain of salt, as few actually have a clue what they're talking about and instead just spout rhetoric that they've heard or read from someone else that doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

For the crank, Hot Rods or OEM. Stay away from Wiseco cranks, their bearing quality is sub par.

Edited by Chokey
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Like he said about Wiseco. "take everything with a grain of salt" including his own advice. I have done rebuilds using Wiseco cranks, and have never seen a problem. Hotrods are good too. I use only Wiseco pistons in every motor I rebuild. If somebody supplies their own piston other than a factory, or Wiseco such as a Namura for example, I tell them straight up that I will not warrant that motor

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Right, but I've been corrected on TTalk that Vertex pistons, the EOM supplier for KTM, are actually cast pistons and will last longer than any other piston out there.  That's largely because of the heat resistant silicon incorporated into its design.

 

 

That's not very accurate. Gone are the days when forged pistons used low-silicon-content alloys like 2618. Most are made from 4032, which has approximately 11% silicon alloy, not much less than hypereutectic cast pistons, which are typically in the 15%-18% range. The added silicon of modern alloys, combined with better CAD analysis and design, and more accurate CNC machining, allows forged pistons to often run as tight or tighter than cast pistons.

 

The higher the silicon content, the more brittle the alloy becomes. High-silicon alloys are too brittle to survive the forging process intact.
 
That's also why cast pistons tend to break skirts when they've been run too long. Most cast pistons used in our machines are of the hypereutectic variety, and can have as much as 18% silicon content. That very high level of silicon makes the pistons very thermally stable, but it also makes them very brittle. Just dropping a cast piston can break it. The lower silicon alloys used in forged pistons make for a more malleable and resilient product that is far less brittle. The varied and elongated grain structure of a forged piston also acts like fiber reinforcing, further strengthening the part. Forged pistons rarely come apart, they tend to just wear out.
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Like he said about Wiseco. "take everything with a grain of salt" including his own advice. I have done rebuilds using Wiseco cranks, and have never seen a problem. Hotrods are good too. I use only Wiseco pistons in every motor I rebuild. If somebody supplies their own piston other than a factory, or Wiseco such as a Namura for example, I tell them straight up that I will not warrant that motor

 

 

I gave no advice, other than a caution about Wiseco cranks. You may have never seen a problem, but these forums are filled with posts about Wiseco cranks failing (the bearings, not the actual crank) after only a few hours. Granted, it's only anecdotal evidence, and I'm sure at least some of those failures can be attributed to mechanic/rider fault, but there are just too many of those stories to simply discount them completely.

 

And I'll go out on a limb here and say I know more about building engines, and the parts contained, than 90% of the people on this forum. So don't discount what I say lightly.

Edited by Chokey
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if you have 02-04 cr250, get a hot rods crank or a 05+ cr250 crank. The 02-04 are prone to failure from the tin wrap failing on the crank webs.

If you have a 05+ just send the crank to kenoconnorracing.com he will cut your rod off, and rebuild it with a pro x rod kit. His work is fantastic and often times a rebuilt crank from him is straighter than a new out of the box oem crank.

 

Pro x piston is very similar to oem, but pro x often times changes small things about there pistons (for the better) 

 

Good cast pistons

  • pro x
  • oem
  • vertex

wiseco and wossner are my personal choice. they are fantastic pistons. If you have a 02-04 run whatever piston you like. they are all great 2 ring pistons.

 

the 05-06 use a domed piston with a single ring. I would use a dual ring wossner in the 05+ motor, far outlast the oe single ring style pistons.

 

 

But measure your bore with a boregauge, a cast vs forged, what matters the most is a proper fitting piston

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Have a 2000 Honda cr250... looking at a vertex piston because of → "Right, but I've been corrected on TTalk that Vertex pistons, the EOM supplier for KTM, are actually cast pistons and will last longer than any other piston out there. That's largely because of the heat resistant silicon incorporated into its design"

And a pro x or wiseco conrod, still wondering which will work best with vertex piston

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If it were me, that bike would get a Wiseco Racer's Choice piston (my preference, but most people run the Pro-Lite) and an OEM crank (Honda cranks are excellent).

 

There's also nothing wrong with Pro-X pistons, Vertex pistons, and even OEM pistons.

 

If you're going to rebuild your existing crank, go with a Hot Rods connecting rod kit.

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 as few actually have a clue what they're talking about and instead just spout rhetoric that they've heard or read from someone else that doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

 

 

 

well geez its a inta net forum. what do you expect a bunch of engineers and phycisists with nothin better to do than sit around answering questions :lol:

 

wiseco crank is crap. the metal is shit. period end of story. consider youself lucky if it lasts a month. your even more lucky if it doesnt grenade at some point down the road and destoy the whole lower end 

 

i dont consider hotrods crank any better than wiseco. use at your own risk and dont run back here crying if it breaks

 

oem is the way to go on cranks.very unlikely the tins will fail but theres always that 1 in a million chance. if your worried then have the tins welded or get the 05+ crank

 

vertex is just another cast piston. theres nothin special about them that ive seen

 

honda doesnt typically sell just the rod. if you rebuild a oe crank then use prox rod which is equivalent to oe. hotrod rod may as well be in the trash with wiseco as far as im concearned

Edited by harryhandshake

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To me it's not about what piston outlast other ones. It's finding one u like. And if u change them when your supposed to. U don't have to worry about it failing. It's like ford Chevy dodge. All the same. Preferences. No matter who makes it there's going to be one in there that's no good. I've use pro x. And stock. Vertex. But wiesco been around a while. And easy to get rings for. And stock gets expensive. But mic your cylinder first. To make sure it's not out of round.

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well geez its a inta net forum. what do you expect a bunch of engineers and phycisists with nothin better to do than sit around answering questions :lol:

wiseco crank is crap. the metal is shit. period end of story. consider youself lucky if it lasts a month. your even more lucky if it doesnt grenade at some point down the road and destoy the whole lower end

i dont consider hotrods crank any better than wiseco. use at your own risk and dont run back here crying if it breaks

oem is the way to go on cranks.very unlikely the tins will fail but theres always that 1 in a million chance. if your worried then have the tins welded or get the 05+ crank

vertex is just another cast piston. theres nothin special about them that ive seen

Metallurgy isn't the problem with Wiseco cranks. The bearings are. They source cheap bearings to included in their crank kits.

The Hot-Rods crank in my KX250 has over 200 hours on it. There's nothing at all wrong with Hot-Rods cranks, their quality is every bit as good as OEM.

Thanks for proving my point on internet opinions though.

Edited by Chokey
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Metallurgy isn't the problem with Wiseco cranks. The bearings are. They source cheap bearings to included in their crank kits.

The Hot-Rods crank in my KX250 has over 200 hours on it. There's nothing at all wrong with Hot-Rods cranks, their quality is every bit as good as OEM.

Thanks for proving my point on internet opinions though.

 

 

your out of your mind brotha. endless list of wiseco cranks broke in half around here (we wont even talk about the 100's of other 2t forums that most likely have a graveyard of wiseco cranks). thats not a metallurgy problem ? 

 

use hotrods if you want. theres a few of them snapped in half around here also.

 

oem pricing is pretty competitive with aftermarket. so why use junk !

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your out of your mind brotha. endless list of wiseco cranks broke in half around here (we wont even talk about the 100's of other 2t forums that most likely have a graveyard of wiseco cranks). thats not a metallurgy problem ?

use hotrods if you want. theres a few of them snapped in half around here also.

oem pricing is pretty competitive with aftermarket. so why use junk !

Yeah hotrods totally has a metallurgy problem :rolleyes:

http://www.hotrodsproducts.com/LearningResources.aspx?ItemID=706&page=1

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your out of your mind brotha. endless list of wiseco cranks broke in half around here 

 

 

Show me a single picture of a Wiseco crank "broke in half". I dare you.

 

Wiseco crank failures are because of the bearings that come installed on them. Not because of the metallurgy of the crank itself.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

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Show me a single picture of a Wiseco crank "broke in half". I dare you.

Wiseco crank failures are because of the bearings that come installed on them. Not because of the metallurgy of the crank itself.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Im not advocating for wiseco, just thought I'd answer the question but have you seen the one in yamaha 2 stroke where the pin ripped in half? OP said it was a wiseco crank

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my Wiseco crank and piston are running just fine. The shop that did the lower end said some of the earlier Wiseco kits had crap bearings but that had been since fixed and they are not seeing any more issues. Hope they are correct. I would think a company like Wiseco would address any quality issues fairly fast rather than suffer negative press.

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