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War againt rust

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So a few days ago went out for a ride and it lasted all for about 5min whem i took a wrong turn in to a mud hole. By the time i got it unstuck water had filled the carb, bottum end, air filter, we tryed are best to clean it out but the cold water going in the engine fried the rings. Getting home late that night i put my bike away and came back in the morning. I have a spare rebuild kit that i keep for days like this. So in the, morning after i started my tear down only to find a little water still seating at the bottom and some rust starting on the conrod and crank. Right away i pulled te engine from the frame poured in kerosen, dumped it out, the oil, then spun the engine with my drill, to get the oil threw everything, then left it for an hour, after its oil bath i put some premix, thinking the gas would be good to clean some rust then let it seat over night. Anyone think my crank and brearing a toast or do you think i might be ok

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Yea i got all the dirt out i made sure, thanks i feel better

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"Cold water fried the rings"?  I have never heard of this.   Somebody please explain.

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When metal is heated and cooled it expamds and contracts. When metal is cooled to fast it becomes brital and dosnt expand like befor. Causing the rings to not give compresion. Thats as simpkple as i can explain it

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When metal is heated and cooled it expamds and contracts. When metal is cooled to fast it becomes brital and dosnt expand like befor. Causing the rings to not give compresion. Thats as simpkple as i can explain it

Not going to happen in a motor...sorry, but science proves you are wrong

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Not going to happen in a motor...sorry, but science proves you are wrong

Yes, please explain your science.
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Like the others I am not really concerned about the surface rust you saw.  More concerning is whether the motor hydrolocked, which can bend the connecting rod.  Basically, water doesn't compress, so when it is sucked into a motor it stops the piston suddenly.  That energy has to go somewhere, and the connecting rod is most likely to fail.  With any luck, the motor quit before it sucked in enough water to hydrolock.  As for the ring issue, no idea.  What makes you think the rings are fried?

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Explain a little more.

Yes, please explain your science.

No need to explain anything, you really need to look up the temps require to heat treat or anneal metals and then you will realize you motor doesn't and can't even come close to those temps without melting itself down first. So ya, science says your cold water on the motor did nothing metallurgy wise. I'm willing to bet one of you two believe you need to "heat cycle" a new or fresh rebuilt motor too

Edited by MrRong
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I can't imagine the metal contracting so fast would have no effect whatsoever on it.

When heated, the atoms are vibrating quite a bit, and when suddenly cooled, they slow down and stop signifigantly, which I'd imagine can lead to a cold seize, although the motor is still warm due to ring shrinkage.

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"Cold seizure" doesn't happen from rapid cooling, in fact it's the opposite. Cold seizure happens when the piston, not the rings heat up faster than the bore cause contact.

Edited by MrRong
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Atoms also don't "stop" when something cools down...:lol:

 

Unless you're cooling it to about -460F...

 

Seriously, the rapid cool-down didn't cause an issue. The dirty water is the only real concern here, unless as dragon says the engine was hydro-locked.

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I can't imagine the metal contracting so fast would have no effect whatsoever on it.

When heated, the atoms are vibrating quite a bit, and when suddenly cooled, they slow down and stop signifigantly, which I'd imagine can lead to a cold seize, although the motor is still warm due to ring shrinkage.

 

 

Do you even know what a "cold seize" is? It's when the piston heats up more rapidly than the cylinder and because of the differing expansion rates, all piston-to-cylinder clearance is lost, literally wedging the piston into the now too-small cylinder.

 

Your little excursion into water didn't cause a cold seizure.

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"Cold seizure" doesn't happen from rapid cooling, in fact it's the opposite. Cold seizure happens when the piston, not the rings heat up faster than the bore cause contact.

  

Do you even know what a "cold seize" is? It's when the piston heats up more rapidly than the cylinder and because of the differing expansion rates, all piston-to-cylinder clearance is lost, literally wedging the piston into the now too-small cylinder.

 

Your little excursion into water didn't cause a cold seizure.

Yea!! What he said!!!

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Well im good for hydrolock i know that, but youd be suprised what cold water will do to hot engines, ive seen cases split on sleds because of snow on the engine, so things like that could happen,

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And it never seized, but i did feel a difference in compresion as soon as i got it unstuck and started kicking

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Well im good for hydrolock i know that, but youd be suprised what cold water will do to hot engines, ive seen cases split on sleds because of snow on the engine, so things like that could happen,

 

 

Thermal shock is a very different issue than a cold seizure. A cold seizure is caused by a loss of clearance. Fractured cases due to thermal shock is caused by uneven expansion and contraction of a complexly shaped thin-walled casting.

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Well im good for hydrolock i know that, but youd be suprised what cold water will do to hot engines, ive seen cases split on sleds because of snow on the engine, so things like that could happen,

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Well im good for hydrolock i know that, but youd be suprised what cold water will do to hot engines, ive seen cases split on sleds because of snow on the engine, so things like that could happen,

You have seen tis personally? I'm amazed in the 30+ yrs of snowmobiling, putting on thousands of miles, I have never once seen anything remotely like this happening. Sure I've heard the stories abut someone's friends uncle it happening to, but I've never EVER seen it in the real world. In fact I'm calling BS in this too. If these motors were so suitable to damaged cause by snow, or a mud puddles we all would have had exprerance losing motors.

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