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Michigan Where to clomplain about Lack of trail up keep in Michigan?

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Hey guys. My boy and I rode the Meadows dirt bike trail out of Luzerne, Mi over the weekend. Its obvious they Don't Maintain it at All!! Starting off at old 144 heading south. The first 1/4 mile must have been a war zone. There was at least 20 to 30 Log crossings and hardly no where to get around it. I dont mind a few log crossings as I think that is part of single track riding but that was totally nuts. Heading further south it got better but than worse again. There is a down hill curve that I crashed on as at the bottom of the curve and you cant see it was 3 large tree's across the trail. Thank God I have good brakes or it would have been a lot worse other than a few bruise's. I also bounced my head off tree branch's from being so low and got swat in the face at least 30 times. To the north of old 144 was not to bad and had some cool challenging riding but south of old 144 sucked !! I dont mind paying the $36.50 for my ORV sticker's but for that price they better maintain the Damn trail!!

 

So who should I call to complain to???

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You could try the local DNR and see if there is anyone that is assigned to that trail... If its that bad  I'm guessing not .Maybe send the CCC a email and see if they know the proper channels to voice your concerns Our group sweeps our assigned  trails twice a year. In the spring for clean up and in the fall for the face slappers. And an occasional trip out to cut up a reported tree down. Or replace a stop sign.. Funny ,but not funny. The DNR went to treated 4x4 some years back to combat post rot. Now we are going back to just untreated post sticks because to many stop signs are stolen for the post.. It all adds up,, the post, the sign, the gas, the manpower, the time to do it. I have not ridden that area,,, Some down stuff can be fun but if its ridiculous its not.

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That section of trail is USFS managed, not DNR, it's the Mio Ranger Office out of Mio.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/contactus/hmnf/about-forest/contactus

 

You are correct. I called the DNR and they gave me the phone number to the Mio ranger station. I called and talked to the guy in charge of trail clean up and he said I was the first guy in years to call. He said he knew there was down tree's but did not think any one rode the area. I told him we have a cabin just a few miles away and will be riding it from now on. He said that hopefully the next time we come up it will be better and he was going to see about getting some volunteers to help. I also used your link and sent a e-mail about this trail. Thanks for the help guys. I will let you know if it gets cleaned up this year and I will be riding next time with a saw to take care of some of the face slapping branch's.

Edited by Zrt1200

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On the other hand, they (USFS) get lots of complaints about the trails not being wide enough. So now all the Meadows and Bull Gap system are 60" wide.

Goes to show they do listen....

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If you are having to pay to use it then it should be maintained. If it isn't, then what the hell are you paying for? And volunteers to clean up the trail? Wtf? Once again, where is your money going?

Edited by gscx
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If you are having to pay to use it then it should be maintained. If it isn't, then what the hell are you paying for? And volunteers to clean up the trail? &%$#@!? Once again, where is your money going?

 

access....maintenance is up to us unless we don't want them at all. It takes quite a bit of work to keep an overused ORV area maintained. If they'd disperse the use more, I'd feel better about the fee.

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access....maintenance is up to us unless we don't want them at all. It takes quite a bit of work to keep an overused ORV area maintained. If they'd disperse the use more, I'd feel better about the fee.

Access to public lands already paid for through your taxes? Hum....I'm in the wrong business

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If you are having to pay to use it then it should be maintained. If it isn't, then what the hell are you paying for? And volunteers to clean up the trail? &%$#@!? Once again, where is your money going?

 

I agree 100%. Its just like Michigan's snowmobile trail permits. We pay to have our trails maintained and groomed. And they use that money for it as well, So no complaints there. The same applies here. Now if my two ORV stickers per bike that we have to have were $10 total I would not be bitching but when I am paying $36.25 per bike damn right I am going to say some thing.

 

I sent the USFS a e-mail last night an they replied today saying they would pass the info on to the person in charge of that area. I will let you guys know what happens when and if it happens. I encourage all Michigan riders to complain if the single track trails are not maintained. For what we are now paying there is no reason for it not to be maintained.

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On the other hand, they (USFS) get lots of complaints about the trails not being wide enough. So now all the Meadows and Bull Gap system are 60" wide.

Goes to show they do listen....

 

They had a reason to go 60" wide, The state passed a law allowing UTV's like the Polaris razors and such who could not fit down a 48" wide trail so they can ride on them as well. I am sure the bike dealers started this as they sell them new multi seat vehicles like hot cake in my area. Next we will have 4wd trucks driving down the quad trails.  :facepalm:

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They had a reason to go 60" wide, The state passed a law allowing UTV's like the Polaris razors and such who could not fit down a 48" wide trail so they can ride on them as well.

No law was passed. USFS widened Bull Gap to 60" a couple years ago. Much of the Meadows was moved out of the woods and onto straight county roads before that.

This last winter MI changed the legal definition of a forest trail and the DNR updated their rules to allow ORV Trails to be open to vehicles to "50 inches or less" which used to be "less than 50 inches". Technically prior to this, the Poo RZR ("trail" model, plus now the Cat Trail and Honda trail-something) were not legal on ORV Trails since they were exactly 50" wide, not less than 50".

Since the USFS uses their own rules, this change by the State was not related. For example, the Ottawa National Forest in the western UP changed their rules so their "trails" are now open to vehicles less than 65" in width.

Edited by 2TrakR

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No law was passed. USFS widened Bull Gap to 60" a couple years ago. Much of the Meadows was moved out of the woods and onto straight county roads before that.

This last winter MI changed the legal definition of a forest trail and the DNR updated their rules to allow ORV Trails to be open to vehicles to "50 inches or less" which used to be "less than 50 inches". Technically prior to this, the Poo RZR ("trail" model, plus now the Cat Trail and Honda trail-something) were not legal on ORV Trails since they were exactly 50" wide, not less than 50".

Since the USFS uses their own rules, this change by the State was not related. For example, the Ottawa National Forest in the western UP changed their rules so their "trails" are now open to vehicles less than 65" in width.

 

 

My Mistake then. I thought this had to do with House bill #68 I believe which went into effect 2 years ago.

 

I was not complaining about ORV trails anyways. I was complaining about single track dirt bike only trails. I know they up keep the ORV trails in that area as I have seen them work on them and you can see improvements from this year alone.

Edited by Zrt1200

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Access to public lands already paid for through your taxes? Hum....I'm in the wrong business

 

do you pay for tabs?  Generally ya got two kinds of 'lands'....state owned, and fed owned.  A multitude of agencies govern that land, and inevitably there are costs associated to our activity. A fee system is agreed upon, and both the fed and the state loot it.

Edited by Slackkinhard

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do you pay for tabs?  Generally ya got two kinds of 'lands'....state owned, and fed owned.  A multitude of agencies govern that land, and inevitably there are costs associated to our activity. A fee system is agreed upon, and both the fed and the state loot it.

Does the government agencies govern the land or manage the land, and who owns said land? Those are two very different things. Also your argument about tabs doesn't hold water. The snow trail permit you brought up early is also BS because the snow system works totally different than the ORV system. Not to mention what a cluster bomb the whole snow trail permit came and with the increases they have jack on the public.

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My Mistake then. I thought this had to do with House bill #68 I believe which went into effect 2 years ago.

SB68 is what was passed this winter and changed the definition of a forest trail.

Originally 68 was the Polaris bill to add in a category for UTV (they used "ROV" in the bill) and they wanted to widen all of the trails to 65". UTVs are already covered by our more general ORV language and so don't need a new category.

Most of the supporters of the original bill, that I know, had never ridden an 50" trail like we have in the lower peninsula. Pretty funny to see those who don't use something try to change it for their own gain.

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Instead of  "clomplaining" about trail conditions, why not join a CCC chapter and volunteer to help maintain a trail?

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I understand that access is enough to be happy for, and I also agree that OUR ORV price has been stagnant for a while. However, after a $20 hike...I will tell you what...I wont be continuing to do it if I dont see some kind of improvement for DIRT BIKES. I appreciate what the clubs do. They do what they can realistically far as removing impassable objects, slappers, etc. But my biggest thing is the huge areas of massively deep whoops. IF i was very fast through there, perhaps i could carry the speed needed to double them, but keep in mind some areas would be a double double double double and so on for at least 200 yards. You always get to the point that to safely go through there as not a pro rider u have to just roll them for a while.

 

I like the whoops mostly, but sometimes its ridiculous...and they are YEARS in the making from what I have seen since I have been back/ read about the situation. They are also very hard pack, its not just sand whoops. So actually grooming them would take something capable of chewing up soil, not just grading it. In a single track trail, having something that small with that kind of weight and power is nearly impossible to find to eat through the packed down soil they are to make a substantial difference.

 

Where I am going with that is...and based on what I have seen in the past. Why can't they allow for a new trail to be cut in very close proximity parallel to the horrible areas. Let those areas go....those areas become woods again if blocked off and the new areas are new. Eventually they would cover over (yes i know it wont happen in a season). But if you can't grade them, why can't this be done. I try very hard not to venture off the trails. The only time I ever do is I am already very far into a trail and I come across a random tree thats fallen recently and the branches are so sporadic that there is no way I could attempt to get over it. At that point our group treads as lightly as possible, so much so u really cant tell we even left the trail for 20yds of travel to get around it. I know this to some is a huge no-no, but im sorry...im not turning around 20miles deep in a trail due to ONE tree that no one who can handle it knows about. And it doesnt happen often at all.

 

It may sound like I am expecting something for my money...because I am. And this is why....the single track dirt bike guys are a small portion of the ORV users around here. IMO I bet we are very low on the list to care about. It is a hell of a lot easier for them to send graders out on the wide-azz lame trails for quads and jeeps and then feel like they are doing something by spending some  of the money there. However, I hate those dust bowl trails where every corner I have to worry about some dumbazz coming around the outside of the corner (when he should be inside) because hes super fast in his jeep or rzr and I go head on with em on my bike.

 

I need to perhaps move to some different trails, because I really havent been on them all. SO therefore, I cant speak for them all. But coming from metro-detroit area, if nothing is ever gonna change then I will save my 3hrs each way wortha gas money + camping + food n such to camp, and just ride the multitude of tracks within an hour away I can do on ONE day...and never put another $36 (or A $36 since I haven't been up yet this yr due to work) towards the fund. I don't think $36 is a lot either, IF I, ME, US dirt bike guys who ride single tracks will reap benefits from it.

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