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DRZ400 charging issues/troubleshooting.

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Hello gang, thanks for the great resource for info on these DRZ400's.  Mine is a 2001, 8000miles.

 

I followed the FAQ on diagnosing charging problems, very useful and well written.  I am still not at a root cause though.

 

My 3 yellow stator wires are not grounded, but the troubling thing is they show 1.0, 1.0, and 0.4 ohms so are different resistence.

When the bike runs, at 3000rpm, they show 65v, 65v, 100v+ even.  So different there.  The diode test shows one way current through the rectifier/regulator on all 3 yellow (to red).  I used a light/battery, so do not know the diode test values.

 

Fuses and plugs test out and are good, the plug shows no sign of heat.  I did not do the Free Power mod yet.

 

My battery is good, holds 100cca and is fairly new.  I can watch it get a slight charge when running - I can rev the motor and get it to come up a tenth or too - 12.4 up to 12.6, but letting off the throttle it will drop back down.  Light is on during this as well.

 

The last thing in the FAQ is the regulator, and not really testable but swappable.  Any chance that can fix the issue here? Or is my issue the fact that my stator values are unequal?

 

Thanks for any help/wisdom with this one! 

Jon

 

Monument, Colorado.

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Do the free power MOD , before retesting anything else.

Resistance difference in the stator legs means nothing. As long it is in value (your .40 is close enough with an average DVM)

 

Stator un-rectified AC voltage test is done at 5000 RPM, so retest and see what you get. Should be 75v AC or above at 5k RPM

 

Post the results for the  above after doing the free power MOD, and include Dc voltage @ 5k RPM

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Thanks E.Marquez.

 

I'll redo the un-rectified test at higher RPM.   I'll also do the free power mod and get that plug out of the way - looked clean but by the sounds of it that means nothing!

It'll be tonight before I am in front of the bike again, but I'll post results.

 

Thanks for the guidance,

Jon

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At 5K rpm, I still see a large difference in AC voltage.  101, 102, and 160 vac.  My meter has been reliable for quite a while (craftsman ac/dc clamp ammeter), but checking it on a truck charging system (13.8vDc) and the house (124vAc) seems to show it is working. I checked the three yellow stator wires several times, similar results.

 

With the free power mod - I bypassed the fuse temporarily and went straight from the Reg to the battery, I still barely get into the low 12v range, it increases in .10th increments, and when I back down from 5K it drops back off.  Never close to 13.5v, much less 14v.

 

I have the battery back on the conditioner - it shows gradual 12.4x increments.  The amps going in are .75, like the charger/conditioner says, so the battery seems to take more charge at < 1amp going in than what the stator/rect/reg is providing it.

 

Thanks folks,

jon

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After the battery fully charges on the conditioner (is it a charger too?) what is its voltage?  Put it in the bike and turn on the key, what is the voltage now?  Start the bike and check voltage again, post each of these 3 voltage readings for us.

 

Did you run the ground straight to the  battery from the R/R as well?

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Thanks Slowriding. 

 

I put this battery on a 12v charger for several hours.

 

volts  -    description/notes

--------------------------------------

13.72 - charged (on the charger).

12.76 - 15 minutes off the charger

12.73 - 30 minutes off the charger

12.15 - key on, light on, 40sec

12.14 - key on, light on, 1 min

12.62 - key off, 15min, seeing if it would come back up.

12.09 - startup, idle, with half/choke on.

12.22 - climb, at idle, as I turned the choke off.

12.46 - 5000rpm for 20sec this is where it levels off. (edited)

 

I also had the battery checked at batteries plus,  100cca for over 15sec. Battery recovered from it. 1/15/2014 was the purchase date, not necessarily a gaurantee of a sound battery but it is not very old!

 

Thanks,

Jon.

Edited by jnordby

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Forgot to add, the RR ground is straight to the battery. So is the positive, so once I figure this out the fuse will go back in line.

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Once off the charger the voltage does seem a bit low but since it held up to the 1 minute 40 of headlight drain and still started the bike we can assume the battery is good enough.

 

So the charge system does put out a small amount, but it barely registers. 

 

A sidenote:  For testing purposes note that on this bike the charge system is separate and you could disconnect the wires coming out of the R/R from the bike and connect to anything and use the bike as a portable generator as long as the battery has enough power to keep the bike running.  This means you can also disconnect the R/R from the battery while it is running to see what the voltage is without the battery.  You could also use a 12V headlamp as a load while testing.

 

Have you removed the stator side cover and looked at the stator?  If you look at the diagrams you will see the stator is star wound.  For each 2 yellow-wire pair, 2 of the coils are involved.  I am a little confused why you are not getting 2 low resistance readings and one higher.  The 2 lower voltage readings and one higher are consistent with a fault in one of the windings.

 

I think it is time to look at the stator and see if there is a darkened post which indicates overheating.  I have for a short term repair on a stator that had one very obviously burned post cut and joined the wires. i scraped the coating and twisted them together after slipping heat shrink tubing over one side.  I didn't bother to shrink it.  I took the rest of the winding off that post so there was no loose bits.  I suspect there is an internal short and possibly arcing when running that is causing the 12V to be present only part of the cycle so it doesn't really do anything.  It would be interesting to scope the outputs.

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/839366-anybody-know-what-this-wire-is-for/?p=8681883

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I'll pull the cover and start looking into the stator later today and will post up what I find. Thanks for the help!

 

Another battery stat is it goes up to 12.46v at 5000rpm for 30sec, so gets some charge, just not enough.

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Stator is out - does show some heat on a few windings, one in particular. Photo attached.
 Is that single overheated winding likely the issue? 

 

Thanks,

Jon.

stator.jpg

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The zipties are melted off?  I don't see any left on there.  How does the plastic under the windings look.  How are the connections where the harness joins the windings?  Are the glass fiber sleeves intact?  Any signs of arcing?

 

Yes if that post has overheated enough to damage the coating on the wire and short out layers of the winding or to the post it could cause the the charging problem.  Given the relatively large difference  0.4 to 1.0ohms it could be more than one post.  The 3 phases go around the posts 1 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 3  around the stator so particularily if you see a few blackened ones that are every third post you could have multiple shorts in a winding.  You can probably follow the wires and then use your meter and know which phase is wrapped around the black post.

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The zipties are melted off? I don't see any left on there. How does the plastic under the windings look. How are the connections where the harness joins the windings? Are the glass fiber sleeves intact? Any signs of arcing?

Yes if that post has overheated enough to damage the coating on the wire and short out layers of the winding or to the post it could cause the the charging problem. Given the relatively large difference 0.4 to 1.0ohms it could be more than one post. The 3 phases go around the posts 1 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 around the stator so particularily if you see a few blackened ones that are every third post you could have multiple shorts in a winding. You can probably follow the wires and then use your meter and know which phase is wrapped around the black post.

Edited due to mis reading the post above

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 Any yellow to the aluminum of the stator frame, or engine if the stator is installed, is a failure. 

Yellow to yellow in any combination should be 0.5 to 1.25ohms.

 

The pertinent information is on page 7-10 of the service manual.

Edited by slowriding

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All zipties are gone.  Fragments of a few only.

 

I'll confirm detailed resistance - probably Friday since work has me in CA instead of CO where the DR is partially disassembled.

 

Thanks Slowriding and E Marquez for the detailed troubleshooting on this,

 

Jon.

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Please confirm your information. Any yellow to the aluminum of the stator frame, or engine if the stator is installed, is a failure.

Yellow to yellow in any combination should be 0.5 to 1.25ohms.

The pertinent information is on page 7-10 of the service manual.

I confirm

Thanks

Yellow to yellow should have continuity, amount is almost immaterial with the inexpensive meters used by most

Yellow to ground should have no continuity

Any is bad

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Sounds like if you order a stator now it might arrive for when you return home.  This one sounds crispy and also has the crispy stator symptoms.

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Agreed - and got on the phone with RickyStator.com - too bad CA is such a big state, else I could swing over there and get one, not sure what the TSA carryon police would say about a stator when it went through the X-ray!

The Ricky Stator folks have a great return policy if uninstalled/unopened, so took the bet it is the stator and will have a part to put in over the weekend.  Good folks down there, fast return call and great advice after seeing the picture and numbers on the tests.

 

Regardless, I'll test out first and post up, might help another get this issue dialed and these threads sure helped me.

 

Thanks,

Jon. 

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Following up and closing this out.

 

Stator is out, so this is bench testing.  I do have 1.1ohm resistance all yellow to stator frame.  I still see the .4, .4, 1.0 resistence between yellow.

 

A closer look at the windings, especially on the back side, does show symptoms of burning every 3rd coil.  Not obvious like the main fried coil in the picture, but more heat/burning than the surrounding coils.

 

A RickyStator pkg was waiting for me Fri - I was able to install Saturday and test on the way through the installation.  Everything was back in spec, and with the Free Power mod still in place, at idle, I was seeing 14.2v.  I went with the RickyStator aftermarket, it fit and worked great.

 

Is it just me, or are those starters a bit difficult to R&R. Mine was stuck in the stator cover so I pulled it - but those 2 8mm bolts are wicked!  I did two old Ford starters last week where the header and collector had to come off first, and I'm not so sure that I wouldn't rather do that again!  Oh well, probably just takes practice and doing the DR wrenching a bit more to get used to it.

 

Thanks for all the help here,

Jon

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DRZ generator/rectifie-rregulator

Been trawling all sorts of forums but cannot fathom my cause.

2001 DRZ 18,000m. About 3 years ago the stator casing corroded & let water in. Stator coil blackened. Stator renewed, all seemed ok but I didnt test any values other than it worked fine. (the new 2nd hand stator came with 2nd hand RR unit but i didnt fit it).

 

Last month noted my headlight was dim, not brightening when rev'd.

Checked voltage on yellow-yellow combination as per the manual (open circuit ie unplugged) = 45vac. New stator bought & fitted.

Checked voltage on yellow-yellow all 3 combinations = 60vac at tickover rising to >85vac at pretty racing engine (no rev counter) so presume all ok.

Battery voltage however not increasing from not running, ign on test of 12.4vdc.

 

Fitted the previously bought 2nd hand RR - no difference - assumed it was faulty, bought another 2nd hand RR - fitted = no difference.

Did diode test on all 3 RR units all pass ! ie current flows only in 1 direction. values consistent at 0.5ohm. Open circuit to earth so ok there too.

 

Stator resistence 0.5ohm between all 3 yellows & open circuit to earth so ok there too.

Stator generates >85vac on open circuit (unplugged)

Red wire appears live at all times even with ign off. No resistance measured to the + battery terminal so connections are ok.

Black/white wire has no esistance measured to the - battery terminal so connections are ok.

The power mod appears to provide power to the red wire at all times which is no different to my present set up - could be a difference between UK/US spec maybe??

 

RR appears to pass current in 1 direction so is rectifying but maybe not regulating ?

 

so, stator is generating ac voltage. which is getting to the rectifier but sod all is coming out of the RR unit.

I cant believe that all 3 RR units are faulty as forums suggest that RR failure is rare.

 

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

Chris B

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Have you done what we call the "Free Power Mod"

Charging system diagnoses Plus the "Free Power MOD"

Started by E.MarquezApr 04, 2008 03:07 AM

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/541623-charging-system-diagnoses-plus-the-free-power-mod/

 

The "Mod" reduces likely failed or will fail connections, and many inches of wiring that was at spec when bike was produced, but causes increased resistance, less capacity as age goes up (the bikes not yours :devil: )

the "MOD" creates a direct path for charging current using a much shorter path, fewer connections and if done correctly, very high quality wire.

 

Yes RR failures are rare on this bike, common on others.

Your AC voltage looks good

Your stator Y circuit looks good (Y-Y very low OHM, ZERO continuity Y- to earth)

NOTE: You are checking the yellow wires on the stator side of the plug..YES?

voltage test: Your doing this with the battery connected, R/R and stator connected? Yes? 

NOTE: You are checking for stator AC voltage with all components connected, back probing the stator side of the stator connection.. Y-Y wire you should see more then 75AC @5000RPM (75v AC is spec, but I've seen new stators go from 60-80VAC)

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