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2 strokes on the rise?

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Just anecdotal evidence but today was my first day at a local MX track this year.  The track was busier than it has been in recent past, probably because I was riding in the mornings on school days before.  I have always been one of the few 2 strokes (if not the only one) out there but today there were quite a few of them.  It is always nice to hear and smell 2 strokes while riding.  Another piece of anecdotal evidence is the price of the 2 stroke in the local classifieds, they are going up.  I have a feeling that if demand dictates it, some of the Japanese manufacturers will be forced to meet it with supply.  I think people went nuts over the 4 stroke MX bikes when they first got popular but now, the craze is dying down because guys are realizing that it is a $1000 bill when the top end blows up on a 4 stroke when it would be a $200 bill on a 2 stroke.

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I have both 2 strokes, and 4 strokes.. With that said, a recent rebuild on my 2 stroke ran me $650 for replating, new piston, crank rebuild (Ken O'Connor racing) rings, wrist pin, circlips, gasket set, etc;

 

I'm also rebuilding a 4 stroke at this time that needed a complete head job (new valves, seats, keepers, springs, guides, 5 angle cut), and also new piston kit with rings, gaskets, etc; $650.. So, depending on what exactly is needed to "fix" them, the prices are not really that far apart any more.

 

This is with me doing all the work however. I can imagine that labor prices to rebuild the 4 strokes are much higher.

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I have both 2 strokes, and 4 strokes.. With that said, a recent rebuild on my 2 stroke ran me $650 for replating, new piston, crank rebuild (Ken O'Connor racing) rings, wrist pin, circlips, gasket set, etc;

 

I'm also rebuilding a 4 stroke at this time that needed a complete head job (new valves, seats, keepers, springs, guides, 5 angle cut), and also new piston kit with rings, gaskets, etc; $650.. So, depending on what exactly is needed to "fix" them, the prices are not really that far apart any more.

 

This is with me doing all the work however. I can imagine that labor prices to rebuild the 4 strokes are much higher.

 

Looks like your 4t is well over 3t what it takes to do a top end on my 2t

 

We are just talking parts, Joe average isn’t usually working on 4t top ends let alone the bottom end

So let’s add in shop labor

Edited by AXAxiom

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I have both 2 strokes, and 4 strokes.. With that said, a recent rebuild on my 2 stroke ran me $650 for replating, new piston, crank rebuild (Ken O'Connor racing) rings, wrist pin, circlips, gasket set, etc;

 

I'm also rebuilding a 4 stroke at this time that needed a complete head job (new valves, seats, keepers, springs, guides, 5 angle cut), and also new piston kit with rings, gaskets, etc; $650.. So, depending on what exactly is needed to "fix" them, the prices are not really that far apart any more.

 

This is with me doing all the work however. I can imagine that labor prices to rebuild the 4 strokes are much higher.

 

So you rebuild the top and bottom end of your 2 stroke for the same price as it took to rebuild your 4 stroke.  Add in replating of the 4 stroke cylinder and a bottom end and you will double that price even when you do your own labor.  I rebuilt my 05 450r when I bought it, needed the head rebuilt.  I didn't do the work on the head but the top end cost my $800.  I rebuilt my CR125 with a 144cc big bore kit for less than that.  There really isn't any comparison in pricing since the 4 stroke has so many more moving parts than the 2 stroke.  Granted a top end on a 4 stroke will last longer but they also have more catastrophic failure as well.  I will probably end up with another 450 someday since I loved my 05 and the only reason I sold it was because my wife wouldn't allow me to have 3 bikes with all their maintenance costs so I do love the 4 strokes, but I will NEVER sell my 06 cr250......ever.

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Totally agree!!  I got back into motocross in 2010.  I had my heart set on a last generation Honda CR250.  My last bike was a '95 CR125 that I sold to move and big wave surf on Oahu 8 years prior in '02.   

 

Everyone tried to talk me out of it saying, "Once you try a 450 you'll never look back."  

 

LMFAO!! I tried them ALL.  They all felt like trail machines that jumped pretty well to me! 

 

So I got my '03 CR250 and I've been stoked every since. 

 

Back in 2010 NOBODY was riding them.  Alot of guy's approached me commenting how clean my bike was and how they were stoked to see someone out riding one of those "old 2 strokes."  

 

So I'd say "well why aren't you riding one then!?" 

 

Even went to local "Day in the Dirt" in 2010 and asked to ride a new YZ250 and the fag from Coyote Motorsports in Denver, CO BELITTLED me saying, "they're dinosaurs, we don't even have any, 2010 is the last year for them anyway."  Then this fag goes on to tell me that KTM doesn't make any more either.  Let's just say I was close to strangling him.  

 

Well 4 years later I show up to the same tracks and there have been a few times I stood on the bleachers and counted 2's vs 4's and we 2strokes had out numbered the 4 strokes!! 

 

A few local pro's are riding yz250's with A-kit suspension.. just RAILING everything!

 

Two strokes are BACK to STAY!!

Edited by MotoGuido
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I have nothing bad to say about my 05 crf450r, in fact I still almost cry whenever I see picks of it.  Really hard seeing it go down the street in the back of someone elses truck.  Having said that, it was worth it to trade it for my cr250.  Like I said above, I want another 450, will probably wait until the FI ones come down in used price a bit. 

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I have nothing bad to say about my 05 crf450r, in fact I still almost cry whenever I see picks of it.  Really hard seeing it go down the street in the back of someone elses truck.  Having said that, it was worth it to trade it for my cr250.  Like I said above, I want another 450, will probably wait until the FI ones come down in used price a bit. 

 

:prof: 

 

YAWN :snore:

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When I rode practice at Washougal a couple weeks ago there was quite a few newer yz's n ktm's and later model cr's i even saw 4 01 cr 125's there was a few rm's and kx's not just mini's even saw a couple of the new huskyktm's. but i have seen more lately just wait till the guys with the fi systems start failing and it's not cheap to replace like a carb.

i rode a '10 crf250r the fi is hype that bike was boring smooth hit less but it now has a much sweeter '06 cr250 motor in it.

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MotoGuido, I live in Colorado also.  This is what I am riding this summer, my 03 retro 87 look YZ 125;  It turns heads while passing them...hehe  If you see me at the track come over and say hi.

IMG_5520.JPG

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Just anecdotal evidence but today was my first day at a local MX track this year.  The track was busier than it has been in recent past, probably because I was riding in the mornings on school days before.  I have always been one of the few 2 strokes (if not the only one) out there but today there were quite a few of them.  It is always nice to hear and smell 2 strokes while riding.  Another piece of anecdotal evidence is the price of the 2 stroke in the local classifieds, they are going up.  I have a feeling that if demand dictates it, some of the Japanese manufacturers will be forced to meet it with supply.  I think people went nuts over the 4 stroke MX bikes when they first got popular but now, the craze is dying down because guys are realizing that it is a $1000 bill when the top end blows up on a 4 stroke when it would be a $200 bill on a 2 stroke.

 

I have to agree with the expense of rebuilding a 4-stroke vs. a 2-stroke.  I just got done rebuilding my '07 CRF450R, new piston, crank, and rod.  It didn't need a replate and the head was still fine as it already had SS valves.  Cost me about $1100 worth of parts to do a good job, and I don't cut any corners.  Last year, I rebuilt the engine in my '01 CR250R, replated Eric Gorr ported cylinder, rebuilt OE crank w/ Pro X rod, gaskets etc.  About $850 for that.  You may think that's not too much more for the 4-stroke, but I rebuilt more of the engine on the 2-stroke and got a ported cylinder for the money I spent.  I imagine that doing a head and replate on the 450 would have easily added another $500-to-$600.  Ken O'Connor did both cranks.

 

I also think people are coming around to 2-strokes again.  I see more all the time at the race track.  Especially in the kid's classes, but the adults are starting to come around as well.

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MotoGuido, I live in Colorado also.  This is what I am riding this summer, my 03 retro 87 look YZ 125;  It turns heads while passing them...hehe  If you see me at the track come over and say hi.

Really nice clean looking bike

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I have to agree with the expense of rebuilding a 4-stroke vs. a 2-stroke.  I just got done rebuilding my '07 CRF450R, new piston, crank, and rod.  It didn't need a replate and the head was still fine as it already had SS valves.  Cost me about $1100 worth of parts to do a good job, and I don't cut any corners.  Last year, I rebuilt the engine in my '01 CR250R, replated Eric Gorr ported cylinder, rebuilt OE crank w/ Pro X rod, gaskets etc.  About $850 for that.  You may think that's not too much more for the 4-stroke, but I rebuilt more of the engine on the 2-stroke and got a ported cylinder for the money I spent.  I imagine that doing a head and replate on the 450 would have easily added another $500-to-$600.  Ken O'Connor did both cranks.

 

I also think people are coming around to 2-strokes again.  I see more all the time at the race track.  Especially in the kid's classes, but the adults are starting to come around as well.

When I started back riding in 2010 it was rare to see any 2 strokes at the AZ tracks.  Every time I would see one I would go over and check it out, they were that rare.  Fast forward to the present.  If I took the time to go check out every 2 stroke at the track I wouldn't have any time to ride.  I see mostly yamaha and ktm but there are also nice examples of Honda, Suzuki and Kawis lately.  Not quite 50/50 2 stroke and 4 but getting much closer.  I get compliments on my bike all the time with many 4 stroke guys telling me they are often thinking about going back to 2 strokes.  A common sentiment seems to be "I don't know why I ever switched over to these 4 strokes." 

 

Don't get me wrong, at my skill level I am faster on a 450f than my cr.  Thing is I don't really want a bike that increases my speed.  Without the talent to go along with the speed the increase in risk is too much imo. 

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Deffinitely agree. Especially for someone like me and most of the people who ride around me who race on a budget. They are so much easier and cheaper. I rode a 250f for a while and all it did was give me bad habits. Now I ride a Yz250 and I'm learning the right way to ride.

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Deffinitely agree. Especially for someone like me and most of the people who ride around me who race on a budget. They are so much easier and cheaper. I rode a 250f for a while and all it did was give me bad habits. Now I ride a Yz250 and I'm learning the right way to ride.

 

I absoutely agree with this.  I can ride my '07 CRF450R a little faster because it lets me get away with stuff.  When I got my '01 CR250, I had to learn how to ride again, you can't fake it on a 2-stroke.  Don't get me wrong, I like my 450 for certain things and when I get on it, I certainly enjoy myself a little more because it is easier to ride.  I am glad to have my CR250 for practice because it makes me a better rider and so I don't have to put so many hours on the 450, keeps the rebuild bills down.  I would think that anyone who can't afford to do two bikes should do a 2-stroke these days, your money and skill ahead in the end.

Edited by bhaugeberg
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MotoGuido, I live in Colorado also. This is what I am riding this summer, my 03 retro 87 look YZ 125; It turns heads while passing them...hehe If you see me at the track come over and say hi.

I saw you at IMI. Sweet bike and you ride it well!!! I was trying to watch how you hit the table in back right out of the corner but someone ahead of you every time I was there.

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Mau_DDM not sure what jump you are talking about, I have only been to IMI twice in the last 10 years.  I will be out at Watkins ( Jewell) tomorrow, if you are there come over and say hi.

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MotoGuido, I live in Colorado also.  This is what I am riding this summer, my 03 retro 87 look YZ 125;  It turns heads while passing them...hehe  If you see me at the track come over and say hi.

 

 

I saw you at IMI. Sweet bike and you ride it well!!! I was trying to watch how you hit the table in back right out of the corner but someone ahead of you every time I was there.

 

 

 

Mark beautiful bike! 

 

Would love to check that thing out up close.  

 

Was at Erie today actually and mine toasted the ring or something. Gonna tear into it tomorrow..  bummer was gonna ride all weekend.

 

Rumor was Watkins was closed down for good!?

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Look at history. It tends to repeat itself. I don't think it will be very long before 2 strokes will be back on the track and teams will be running them. If they would just direct inject them... hnnnnggggg!

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MotoGuido, "Watkins" now know as "Jewell" re-opened 3 weeks ago.  The facbook page is under "Jewell motocross" and they are open Friday-Monday 9-7.  To bad about your top end, guess you just ride it to hard...hehe

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