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New to Dirt Bikes - Extremely Confused - Jetting 200xcw

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So i just bought a new 2014 200 XCW. Im looking at being able to do my own work on the bike, im doing everything i can to take care of the bike and do the proper maintenance, but out of everything to learn i find jetting by far the most confusing. I'm sure i am after reading everything on the internet about it, but it still seems to confuse me. Either im just plain domb or maybe its because this is all totally new to me haha. I know this is an extremely common question and there are lots of threads on it, but i dont understand much of it, i need the basics of the basics explained! thanks for the patience. I currently have 5 hours on the bike and i love it, but before i do any more riding i have to understand all of this 100% for my own piece of mind haha.

 

In the KTM manual that came with the bike, there are jetting tables in the back. The stock jetting is aparently for 1001 - 2500 ft & for 16-24C (61-78F).

 

This is what is stated for the stock jetting:  ASO - 2

                                                                    IJ     - 40

                                                                   NDL - N1E1

                                                                   POS -   3

                                                                     MJ -  158

 

 

 

I live near sea level, and the temperature outside right now is usually between 6-15C (42-60F) or 16-24C (61-78F).

For the temperature and elevation we have where i live, the manual says:

 

6-15 C                            16-24 C

ASO - 1.5                           2                          

 IJ     - 42                           42

NDL - N1EH                      N1E1

POS -   3                            3

 MJ -  162                          160

 

 

 

 

 

 

So by looking at this information, The Bike already has the Idle/Air adj Screw in the right place (2 turns out), & it already has the right Needle in the Right positon ( N1E1 in the 3rd position from the top notch on the needle). right?

The only things i have to change are the size of the idle jet ( go from 40 to 42 ) and the size of the main jet ( go from 158 to 160) If i want to change the stock jetting to suit temperatures of 16-24C for Sea level. The bike came with a 160 MJ & a N1EJ & N1EH Needles. Both needles look identical to me, whats the difference?

 

The numbers listed for the jets must be a size or something are they? (ex: main jet 158,160,162, etc.)

 

Once i change the things that need to be changed, the bike should run correctly without any further adjustments right? ( i run my fuel 1:60 as the manufacturer suggests. even though i mixed up one container 1:50 & used that. that should be okay should it?)

 

Is it difficult to change them myself? Is there a high potential for damage if somebody who don't really know what they're doing (myself) tries this and &%$#@! it up? is the potential for damage from not chaning the jets high? i want to learn but i have nobody to ask in person for guidance or show me how to do it correctly. I don't want to bring it to the dealership because i want to learn this myself. 

 

Any general information on this whole jetting thing would be greatly appreciated, i really have no idea. Maybe im being too particular, but i want my bike running the way its supposed to & to last as long as possible.

 

Thanks,

A Confused first timer

155.JPG Jetting tables

156.JPG 160 Main Jet & N1EJ Needle

157.JPG  Both needles that came with bike (N1EJ & N1EH)

 

 

 

 

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Welcome to the ktm family. 60:1 is ok with high quality oils. You should mix what it says on the back of the oil bottle. What oil are you using? What does it say to mix it at? As far as jetting... your not far off. Is the bike running good. A little elevation wont make to much difference. Its nice to have extra jets though. There cheap and easy to change. You have to take the carb off the bike. Flip it upside down and take the bowl off and you can get at the jets. You'll see them. Just be careful and take your time the first time. Its not hard and you cant really damage anything. Pilot jet usually has a flat head slot and the main is a little hex head. Just keep things clean. Wouldn't hurt to change them to make things perfect. But... if its running good I would just leave it. Call ktm world. They will help you. Look them up on google

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Thanks, I'm using motorex pre mix, it doesn't actually have a ratio wrote on the bottle, but the manual says motorex 2stroke oil, 1:60 mix. I think the bike is running alright, this is my first two stroke bike, and first real dirt bike ever. It feels like it has less power sometimes & more other times, I have no idea why! I'm using the same fuel I mixed up 1:50. I'd like to have the bike jetted perfectly, but I'm unsure of what jets & sizes have which effects on performance. I'm pretty much totally lost when it comes to that, I'm slowly learning though. I don't want to damage my bike, I'm extremely paranoid haha.

& a question a little off my original topic, but the only oil I have to change on the bike is the gearbox (transmission) oil right? The clutch bathes in that as well as the gears/transmission right? Are the gears and transmission the same thing ?

Thanks a million

Trevor

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And are idle and pilot jets the same thing? I just found out that the bigger the number on the jet, the richer your bike will run. Am I correct?

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And are idle and pilot jets the same thing? I just found out that the bigger the number on the jet, the richer your bike will run. Am I correct?

Pilot jet is knows as the idle jet. Basically you jet your bike to how it runs/performs/looks ( as far as plugs goes) check you plug if it's a mocha brown then it's jetted good if it's black it's too rich and if it's white it's too lean. Better to be rich than lean. Being lean can burn a piston

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And yes, the smaller the jet the leaner it will run. Bigger = richer. And if u move the clip up on the needle it makes it leaner, move clip down it makes it leaner it is a complicated process that takes a whole to get used to

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Yes. That is the only oil you have to change. Use good oil there to. 1:50 or 1:60 is just fine. I mix at 1:50 with Amsoil. The reason your bike feels that way is because it has less power before the power valve opens. The power valve only opens when you hit a certain RPM. Not sure what rpm your bike will open at but its prob in your owners manual. Its supposed to be that way so I dont think you have a problem. You wont damage your bike. When you ride your bike and you feel it serge forward or get more powerful. .. your power valve is opening and your in the power band. Thats a good thing. If your in second gear and in the power band than let off the throttle and shift into third if your going to slow for third gear it will feel like your losing power. Just hammer y he throttle and bring the bike back into power band. Same with all gears. If you shift fast enough and high in the rpms it will stay in power band. Just keep practicing you'll get the hang of it. When you change jet sizes you making your bike more lean or more rich. The little silver flat head screw on the side of your carb is your mixture screw. Should be one to two turns out from fully bottomed out. The other black screw is your idle. Only adjust your idle when the engine is warm for best results. And yes the idle jet and pilot jet are the same thing. Do some research on jet sizing and you'll understand what jets will make you leaner and what jets will make it richer.

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Trev 0,

Im in the same boat as you. I just bought a left over new 13' 200 XCW , its not my first dirt bike but its my first 2 stroke bike.

Im also learning how to jet a carb as well and I must say that in the last few weeks its been challenging to say the least.

 

As far as changing the jets, its pretty easy and you don't have to take the carb off the bike it you have enough length in

the throttle cable. Loosen the hose clamps that hold the carb on the intake and turn or twist the carb so the bottom bowl 

is facing you slightly. Remove the 17mm nut on the bowl and you will see the main jet (6mm) and the pilot jet (flat head screw).

The needle is attached to the throttle cable.

Changing the jets and needles are easy, knowing how to read the engine sound, affects, spark plug, smoke, are the hardest part.

Knowing if your engine is running too rich or lean is vital as you can do serious damage if its too lean.

 

Im running a JD jet kit, Red needle position #3, 170mj, 38pj and 2.5 turns on the air screw and its still not running correct.

Too rich still. I'll probably go back to the stock jets and see what happens.

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Be careful when changing those jets. The metal they are made of are really soft and the first time I changed one when I was learning bout jetting I sheared the head right off with very little pressure from a regular sized wrench. Luckily it's so soft I put a flat blade screw driver on it and pushed down hard enough to turn it out. Other than that not a lot u can mess up. Best way to jet is off the plug, look for a good golden brown burn and ur good.

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Exactly. .. thats why I suggested taking the carb off. Especially your first couple times. Makes things easier to see and get at.

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And yes, the smaller the jet the leaner it will run. Bigger = richer. And if u move the clip up on the needle it makes it leaner, move clip down it makes it leaner it is a complicated process that takes a whole to get used to

Typo, should read> And if u move the clip up on the needle it makes it leaner, move clip down it makes it RICHER it is a complicated process that takes a whole to get used to

And Trevor, understand that the airscrew setting given in the book is just a suggestion/starting point. You have to fine tune it for best throttle response off idle. Look up the "whack the throttle" method.

All the fuel circuits, pilot, needle and main jet, overlap each other in their specific ranges of effect.

You can't see a difference between adjacent needle sizes. On many needles it may only be .0001" .

There are some good reads on needle codes over on the KTM forum. http://ktmtalk.com/showthread.php?t=214260

The last letter in your needle code indicates straight diameter. The higher the letter, the leaner the needle, so the N1EJ is leaner than the H, by 1 clip position. I say 1 position because there's usually only 1/2 clip position difference between adjacent needle sizes. So by that logic, clip position 3 on the H would be the same as clip position 4 on the J.

There's the "I" needle between the H and J. And I suspect the N1E1 needle you speak of may not be a "1", but actually an "I". Some needle manufacturers code their needles to replace the "I" with a "W" to prevent confusion between an I and a 1.

So if you were tuning the needles effects on low and mid-range throttle and your "I" needle was in position 3 and you didn't like it, and dropping it a position was too lean and raising it a position was too rich, then you could go to one of the other adjacent needles and put it in the the same 3rd position and it would only be 1/2 a clip position different from the "I" needle in the 3rd position. Whether it was 1/2 position leaner or richer would depend on what needle you swapped in. This allows you to really fine tune the needles range.

You can see in your jetting chart how the last letter goes higher(leaner) as you go up in elevation. There's even a "G" needle given at sea level.

The 3rd letter in the code indicates taper angle. The higher the letter, the richer the taper.

Edited by Trailryder42

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ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1402751571.246734.jpgImageUploadedByThumper Talk1402751594.595666.jpgImageUploadedByThumper Talk1402751615.497021.jpg

My plug. Is that too black? Too rich? There's no white on it that's for sure

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I just took a screw off the side too down by the brake leaver to check oil but noththing flowed out at all, even with the bike totally tipped over on it's side, it came from dealership and I only put 4.5 hours on it. Wtf?

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ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1402753415.601065.jpg

That's the screw I undone, I'm pretty sure that's the one they're pointing to in the manual, on the right side behind the brake lever. It was only a short little screw with a washer. No oil flowed out at all, even with the bike tipped 45 degrees over on it's side.

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Does it say "oil level" in the case?

I'm not familiar with where the check bolt is on the 200. Be sure its not actually just forward of the clutch cover.

If you're sure you have the location right and your manual says oil should weep from that hole to show proper level, you should take it back to the dealer to document that they forgot to fill it, so in case you have any related trouble later, they'll have no choice but to fix it on their dime.

Edited by Trailryder42

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It never actually said oil level on the case, but it's exactly to where the manual shows. But again I could be doing something completely stupid, I will check now soon and look for oil level wrote on the case

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And the dealer told me that the bikes came from the factory with gear oil?

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And the dealer told me that the bikes came from the factory with gear oil?

Put ur finger over the oil fill hole when the cap is off and push the kick starter with ur hand and see if any oil comes on ur finger. I don't believe that is the oil drain bolt. Usually it will be a bigger bolt not a screw. That looks to just be a bolt holding the case together. Look under the break lever almost under the case and see if there's a bolt that stands out

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