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520RS valve check

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Doing my first check and find all valves tighter than .003 in. Normal? Have about 60 hours on her. Also finding TDC with a Rekluse is a bitch! Another also, the intake cam gear is marked in two spots.

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You didn't check them at 3hrs? Valve checks are required every 30 hrs. I had one tight exhaust. As long as both cam marks are lined up and the lobes aren't facing down your good. You really don't need to find TDC but we won't start a debate on that. Your local HD dealer will have the shims( V-rod) in stock if your dealer doesn't. I wouldn't worry about them being tight unless it continues. They need time to bed when new.

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nope was having too much fun and forgot. According to the engine manual the gear notch on exhaust is the index mark to cylinder. Mine does not have a mark near there. not sure Im finding TDC.

 

My decompressor is mounted entirely different than picture in engine book.

Edited by Mckay

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OK tools play a big role, as always. I bought the stupid stick feeler gauges that are solid in the center with itty bitty gauges riveted on the ends. They don't work unless you are perfect in alignment, hard to do while motor is in bike as the solid parts hang up and give false readings. I bought a set of normal gauges for home and all my valves are in spec.

 

Would still like to carry on discussion about finding TDC and also not finding it, hoping to keep the discussion civil. Ill take pictures of what i "think" is TDC on my bike tomorrow.

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An easy way to get close enough is to put a 1/4" wooden dowel down the plug hole and watch it rise till it hits that small non movement platue, then look for the cam marks. A bore scope works great but the dowel is more cost effective for most. Not sure how to turn the motor over with the recluse, might have to pull the stator cover and turn by the flywheel nut. Buy a set of feelers just for bike use, you can then bend the ends were needed for quicker checks. Supposedly theres a bolt/washer on the bottom of the crankcase that locks the crank when the washer is removed and just the bolt is reinstalled. I assume the bolt has a slight point and the crank has a dimple. Chris would know on the bolt/washer part as I believe he has used that method.

Edited by Rotax

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The TDC marks on my 450 are hard to identify. You can just barely make them out.

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nope was having too much fun and forgot. According to the engine manual the gear notch on exhaust is the index mark to cylinder. Mine does not have a mark near there. not sure Im finding TDC.

 

My decompressor is mounted entirely different than picture in engine book.

 

I was also a bit worried about the decompression position. We lined it up using common sense and the bike still works, so I guess it's Ok.

IMG_1752.JPG

Screen Shot 2014-06-13 at 8.35.50 AM.jpg

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Supposedly theres a bolt/washer on the bottom of the crankcase that locks the crank when the washer is removed and just the bolt is reinstalled. I assume the bolt has a slight point and the crank has a dimple.

 

That's correct. That caused me a HUGE headache, because the copper washer had pretty much fused itself into the case. Cutting it out took a LOT of time, because obviously, you don't want to make any mistakes around there. Turns out, mine was installed way too tight from the factory.

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Supposedly theres a bolt/washer on the bottom of the crankcase that locks the crank when the washer is removed and just the bolt is reinstalled. I assume the bolt has a slight point and the crank has a dimple.

 

That's correct. That caused me a HUGE headache, because the copper washer had pretty much fused itself into the case. Cutting it out took a LOT of time, because obviously, you don't want to make any mistakes around there. Turns out, mine was installed way too tight from the factory.

 

Since you have it out, your all set. TDC of compression stroke is just like Ballkan boy says. Simply line up the marks on the cams to the surface of the head.

 

Doing my first check and find all valves tighter than .003 in. Normal? Have about 60 hours on her. Also finding TDC with a Rekluse is a bitch! Another also, the intake cam gear is marked in two spots.

 

If you have the external slave adjuster, just turn it a few clicks out. Then your Rekluse will be just like a manual trans. Don't get all wrapped up into the initial 3 hour valve check. Complete waste of time. Every 50 hours or so or when the engine gets hard to start.

 

If you are just checking valves, no need to find TDC. Just check intake when exhaust is opening/closing and check exhaust when intake is opening/closing. Simple as pie. .004-.007 (.10-.175mm) is the limit for intake. .005-.008 (.125-.20mm) for exhaust. So it looks like you are a little tight for sure. To adjust, get it at TDC of the compression stroke and zip tie the cam gears to the chain. Then you lift them up slightly and change the shims. As far as feeler gauges, I remove them from the holder and bend to fit. Dave has some really cool ones for pretty cheap that are made just for checking cam clearance.

 

http://shop.getdirtydirtbikes.com/Feeler-Guage-Set-AB-15002.htm

 

I will admit, I have never done a valve adjustment on this motor. Just a valve check. I'll be adjusting them in a few weeks as my motor is getting a bit harder to start, requiring a little throttle to start when hot. I'm going to have Dave help me because the upgraded decompression device is being installed at the same time. 

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I was also a bit worried about the decompression position. We lined it up using common sense and the bike still works, so I guess it's Ok.

Ok my bike looks exactly like the book picture with the red arrows, not like your picture of your bike, odd thing is, Your bike picture matches my book picture and my bike matches your book picture. How can that be?

 

Do you remember if you cam lobes were up? They should be aligned to the arrows in you book picture, intake facing back from top and exhaust facing forward from top?

 

Ive been working on turbines far to long...... I Have to dig out the cobwebs in my head from the old days of combustion engines!  :cripple:

Edited by Mckay

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Since you have it out, your all set. TDC of compression stroke is just like Ballkan boy says. Simply line up the marks on the cams to the surface of the head.

 

If you have the external slave adjuster, just turn it a few clicks out. Then your Rekluse will be just like a manual trans. Don't get all wrapped up into the initial 3 hour valve check. Complete waste of time. Every 50 hours or so or when the engine gets hard to start.

 

If you are just checking valves, no need to find TDC. Just check intake when exhaust is opening/closing and check exhaust when intake is opening/closing. Simple as pie. .004-.007 (.10-.175mm) is the limit for intake. .005-.008 (.125-.20mm) for exhaust. So it looks like you are a little tight for sure. To adjust, get it at TDC of the compression stroke and zip tie the cam gears to the chain. Then you lift them up slightly and change the shims. As far as feeler gauges, I remove them from the holder and bend to fit. Dave has some really cool ones for pretty cheap that are made just for checking cam clearance.

 

http://shop.getdirtydirtbikes.com/Feeler-Guage-Set-AB-15002.htm

 

I will admit, I have never done a valve adjustment on this motor. Just a valve check. I'll be adjusting them in a few weeks as my motor is getting a bit harder to start, requiring a little throttle to start when hot. I'm going to have Dave help me because the upgraded decompression device is being installed at the same time. 

My marks are different than others and certainly different than the books...

 

Not worried about the initial check as I know that is not long enough for valves to get comfy in their homes, that's really why I waited until now.

 

Thanks for the Rekluse tip, didn't even think about that! I've been bump starting to get near TDC then manually moving gears.

 

The tools Dave sells are what I have, Ill stick to good old feeler gauges, his are not friendly at all.

 

I'm not sure you have enough wiggle room to get shims out with cams in place and tied to chain, have you done this? I'm curious why you wouldn't just pull them so you can get a good look at them and the saddles and also it would be a bit harder to loose a shim down into the abyss by pulling the cams methinks...

 

Thanks for the advice, Id like to give you some, don't wait until the bike is hard to start to check, a burnt valve is going to ruin your day mentally and financially! I too am going to stick to 50 hour intervals.

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My marks are different than others and certainly different than the books...

 

Not worried about the initial check as I know that is not long enough for valves to get comfy in their homes, that's really why I waited until now.

 

Thanks for the Rekluse tip, didn't even think about that! I've been bump starting to get near TDC then manually moving gears.

 

The tools Dave sells are what I have, Ill stick to good old feeler gauges, his are not friendly at all.

 

I'm not sure you have enough wiggle room to get shims out with cams in place and tied to chain, have you done this? I'm curious why you wouldn't just pull them so you can get a good look at them and the saddles and also it would be a bit harder to loose a shim down into the abyss by pulling the cams methinks...

 

Thanks for the advice, Id like to give you some, don't wait until the bike is hard to start to check, a burnt valve is going to ruin your day mentally and financially! I too am going to stick to 50 hour intervals.

 

That's cool. Sorry you're having so much trouble with those feeler gauges. After my initial clearance check, I have always adjusted my valves according to how hard the bike is to start. Have not burnt one yet. Of course if you have titanium valves then thats a whole other story. 

 

I will be pulling my cams all the way out in a few weeks due to replacing the decompression device. If I'm just replacing shims then the zip tie trick. I have not replaced shims yet so I haven't tried it on this bike.

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That's cool. Sorry you're having so much trouble with those feeler gauges. After my initial clearance check, I have always adjusted my valves according to how hard the bike is to start. Have not burnt one yet. Of course if you have titanium valves then thats a whole other story. 

 

I will be pulling my cams all the way out in a few weeks due to replacing the decompression device. If I'm just replacing shims then the zip tie trick. I have not replaced shims yet so I haven't tried it on this bike.

Let us know if there is the wiggle room to do this please.

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Your local HD dealer will have the shims( V-rod) in stock if your dealer doesn't.

The generic set from Hot cams or Pro X wont work? My Beta dealer is two hours from me.

 

Does anybody know the diameter of our shims?

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The generic set from Hot cams or Pro X wont work? My Beta dealer is two hours from me.

 

Does anybody know the diameter of our shims?

10mm. Same kit as the 2008-2011 KTM exc
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Let us know if there is the wiggle room to do this please.

There is plenty of room. Just tip the cam to the side, lift the follower and use a magnet stick to pull it out. I use grease on shim/my finger to reinstall. I had one exhaust .003 under min @ 3 hrs. I will second not waiting till its hard to start. Damage can start long before you notice starting problems. The valve check is so easy I'll be using the 30hr req. Much faster then shim under bucket type. I do use the higher rpm range a lot so frequent checks are to be expected. Hot cams or Pro x is fine as long as there 10mm. I didn't have the size I needed oddly enough and used a HD one. My dealer is 4 1/2 hrs away. Living 30 miles out of HD's mother land of Milwaukee theres HD dealerships galore. Much closer then the KTM dealer and cheaper @ 2.10

Edited by Rotax
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There is plenty of room. Just tip the cam to the side, lift the follower and use a magnet stick to pull it out. I use grease on shim/my finger to reinstall. I had one exhaust .003 under min @ 3 hrs. I will second not waiting till its hard to start. Damage can start long before you notice starting problems. The valve check is so easy I'll be using the 30hr req. Much faster then shim under bucket type. I do use the higher rpm range a lot so frequent checks are to be expected. 

 

You guys are way too paranoid. You are not going to damage this motor because the valves are a little tight. If that was the case, then all my bikes motors would have failed long ago. Not to mention the Betas that Dave races, loans out like a whore, and flogs in the 24 hour events. He went over 2 years and hundreds of hours before doing a valve adjustment on his 450. And that's only because the engine was making noise. 

 

I'm not saying to not do maintenance. Just use a little common sense. If you do everything by the book, you are going to split the cases and replace bearings, pistons and lots of other stuff after just a few rides! 

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Not paranoid at all. I just like running at peak performance. I've never torched a valve on a stock motor but have on inducted motors. I spend more time cleaning my bike then it takes for a valve check so I don't see it as a big deal. Case splitting, more then likely I will since I'm not familiar with this motor and I'm curious. Not sure I'll replace everything but more then likely the bearing will be because there cheap and probably the piston. Twice I've reused a piston that showed no wear and mic'd perfect only to have it grenade a few hours later. They let go at the pin. The pieces looked fine until magna fluxed. The stress cracking was pretty apparent then. I've fluxed a couple others I thought about reusing to confirm condition and glad I didn't. Everything will fail at some point and some will last way past the req. service interval. The question is, are you willing to play the odds?, a gambler I'm not though some are. I enjoy my toys too much to have one out of service trying to save a buck.

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You guys are way too paranoid. You are not going to damage this motor because the valves are a little tight. If that was the case, then all my bikes motors would have failed long ago. Not to mention the Betas that Dave races, loans out like a whore, and flogs in the 24 hour events. He went over 2 years and hundreds of hours before doing a valve adjustment on his 450. And that's only because the engine was making noise. 

 

I'm not saying to not do maintenance. Just use a little common sense. If you do everything by the book, you are going to split the cases and replace bearings, pistons and lots of other stuff after just a few rides! 

 

Not paranoid here either and I wont be splitting cases and replacing pistons due to a chart but will be using common sense and experience when those items come due. I will be checking my valves at approx 50 hours. Now

that I have figured out the markings its really easy. Both my gears had marks in two places and both would line up. It took common sense and experience to figure out the book is wrong in my situation.

 

Not sure how tight valves and valve trains make noise, its always been the opposite in my experience. 

 

Dave can afford to do these things, its his job and his prices and delivery schedules are much better than we will see. He also likely enjoys a nice compliment of the specialized tooling to fix whatever he breaks. He also likely has multiple bikes to ride while one is on the stand. Most of us don't have these luxuries and a burnt valve could put allot of us out for an entire season or better and for what? Failing to do a 1 to 2 hour job that most times we will never find anything wrong? Wish I could use this logic on my helo inspections, I tear crap apart daily only to put it back together again after finding nothing wrong. 

 

I think you took something wrong here Chris, no one is insulting your desire to do what you want, only stating our belief that more frequent checks will be better for your bike, your riding, and your pocketbook over time.

 

See what I did there? We WANT you to ride....

Edited by Mckay
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