Uh...where'd the oil go?

[yofrankie]

Wow,

I just got this 2002 xr250 and have been commuting to work about 90mi round trip. I have the valves adjusted properly, and keep it below 55 most of the time. I ride dirt roads and secondary roads the whole way. After an oil change yesterday, I doubled checked my oil level on the dipstick after today's commute and ...... it didn't register on the dipstick at all? I read some other posts but the bike does not smoke and I'm not beating on the valves. Is this type of oil consumption normal? Can I reduce the oil disappearance?

Edited June 16, 2014 by yofrankie

[Oil Baron]

 . . . . the bike does not smoke . . . . 

 

The bore could still be worn out.   Keep a close watch on the oil level.

[yofrankie]

So it's looking like about 700ml per 90 miles!!!

I looked at the plug and it's not unreasonable

You thinking it's time for a top end rebuild?

[Brewster Two]

Wow,

I just got this 2002 xr250 and have been commuting to work about 90mi round trip. I have the valves adjusted properly, and keep it below 55 most of the time. I ride dirt roads and secondary roads the whole way. After an oil change yesterday, I doubled checked my oil level on the dipstick after today's commute and ...... it didn't register on the dipstick at all? I read some other posts but the bike does not smoke and I'm not beating on the valves. Is this type of oil consumption normal? Can I reduce the oil disappearance?

What is your procedure for checking the oil? Its not as simple as removing, wiping and inserting the dipstick into the engine/frame. XR's require "the procedure" to get an accurate reading.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Brewster Two

[yofrankie]

Ok what would the procedure be? Manual says drain the downspout and crankcase bolt then refill to the upper level mark on dipstick

Done

After a ride stated above I pulled the dipstick and nothing registers?!?

Something's not right.

Am I missing something?

Why make a dipstick if it's not for measuring oil level?

[Brewster Two]

Ok what would the procedure be? Manual says drain the downspout and crankcase bolt then refill to the upper level mark on dipstick

Done

After a ride stated above I pulled the dipstick and nothing registers?!?

Something's not right.

Am I missing something?

Why make a dipstick if it's not for measuring oil level?

If you did an oil change and oil filter, you should have put in 1.5 US quarts. More than that and you have overfilled the bike. Lets first make sure you have the proper amount of oil in the bike.

[yofrankie]

Correct. In fact mine only took 1400ml

[cpetz24]

You need to start the bike and let it idle for a couple of minutes to get the oil pumping up through the frame.  Its a dry sump motor.  If you check the oil when the bike has been sitting all of the it will always check low. 

 

1. You should put the reccomended amount of oil in ( which you've done)

2. Start the bike up

3. Let it idle for a couple of minutes.

4. Shut the bike off

5. Immediately pull the dip stick, clean it off

6. Set it back into the hole (do not thread it in)

7. Remove the dipstick

8. Check level and add oil if necessary.  

[yofrankie]

hmm

I looked at the manual and there is a procedure, and it is weird. Looks like the dipstick is like an afterthought or something. manual says start motor and run for a few min. Shut off check dipstick. Then check oil level bolt. If oil flows out youre good, if no oil flows out then add to upper level on dipstick!!!

I guess I'm just cautious as I understand these things can burn oil and I was panicked after my ride when I checked the dipstick and it was dry . What I thought was going to be a dependable commuter bike is seeming less and less so.

[michigan400]

Check the motor bolt once every blue moon you don't have to every time. It's weird because its a dry sump motor and holds oil outside the engine so your procedure needs to be the same every time or more oil could be in the engine vs the frame, making it read low when its not.

[Brewster Two]

hmm

I looked at the manual and there is a procedure, and it is weird. Looks like the dipstick is like an afterthought or something. manual says start motor and run for a few min. Shut off check dipstick. Then check oil level bolt. If oil flows out youre good, if no oil flows out then add to upper level on dipstick!!!

I guess I'm just cautious as I understand these things can burn oil and I was panicked after my ride when I checked the dipstick and it was dry . What I thought was going to be a dependable commuter bike is seeming less and less so.

I find the instructions from Honda don't always work. I have to ride the bike a short distance after it is warm. Then I shut it off and check it, its the only way I can get consistent readings. XR's ARE among the most dependable bikes ever built IMHO.

[4strokeridertt]

All the oil is stored in the frame when you are riding the bike. You need to RIDE the bike around until it is at least a little warm to get a correct reading.

Stop, shut down the motor, take off your helmet, then check the oil. In the time you take off your helmet the air bubbles mostly float out and you can get a correct reading. You read the dipstick without screwing it in. Just dip it in till the threads touch.

If it reads on the dipstick you are safe. The whole frame tube is full of oil.

Just starting it and letting it idle will not always get all the oil out of the bottom of the motor.

I am not a fan of leaving my XR idling if I'm not out riding.

[yofrankie]

Ok so I did a shorter trip, 50 miles, checked oil after a brief ride around after the cool down period and the dip stick was wet. Next morning followed the above advice of riding around for a few minutes and checking. Back to no oil on stick. Checked the check bolt with oil flowing out. Short of measuring oil by draining after each ride to check how much has disappeared, is it safe to say that if there is oil flowing out of the lower check bolt I'm not in danger of seizure? Is it possible this thing has a circulation issue? If so where might be the culprit? I've already checked the inline screen and it was clean and clear.

[Kev_XR]

I ride my XR400 two or more laps around my truck to get a proper reading. Without using the gears, it reads low..

If in doubt, drain the oil from frame and engine.

Add 1.8 quarts for no filter change. 1.9 quarts with filter change.

Now the XR400 has the correct amount of oil.

Warm, ride, and check the oil.

[michigan400]

Check your oil just after each ride, not just before. Your not gonna burn oil with the bike not running so you know it will be good the next time you want to ride.

[Trailryder42]

How long had the engine been off when you checked the oil at the check bolt?

That the check bolt hole has oil coming out of it is not whats important, but under what condition does it come out. You want to have enough oil in the engine so that AFTER the frame tube has been filled and the oil pump is maintaining that level, there is a residual level being maintained in the crankcase that will be verified by removing the check bolt.

So the check bolt level has to be checked under the same condition as the dipstick, having run the the engine to operationg temp, riden around some, then left to set idling for a few minutes with the bike in a level state so oil levels stabilize. Shut down, Then immediately remove the check bolt. In fact, I think I'd have it already broke loose, then all I'd have to do is put a socket and extension on it and zip it out real quick.

I don't agree with the notion of, after shutting off the engine, letting it set long enough to take your helmet off, then checking levels. There's only about an inch between the hi and low levels on the dipstick. Given the head pressure of the oil in the frame tube and the property of liquids always wanting to find equilibrium, it doesn't take long for the oil to drain down in the frame tube an inch, throwing off a true indication of the amount of oil in the engine.

That's why level must be check "Immediately" upon shut down. Of coarse theres going to be oil at the check bolt if theres been any delay, that is, unless oil amount in the engine is extremely low.

There's the main oil screen in the bottom of the crankcase, the point at which the oil pump draws from. You can see it on page 4-4 of the shop manual. If its never been check or cleaned, its typical to find it riddled with strands of rtv, metal shaving and left over production crap.

[yofrankie]

Thanks 4strokett and TR42,

I warmed it up, took it for a rip on the road through 4th gear, stopped the bike, pulled the dipstick and voila. Its full as a mofo! Looks like the short ride and check works well.

Thanks again everyone

[MarxMyth]

I've found oil level on the XR4 to be a very mysterious thing.

[4strokeridertt]

I've found oil level on the XR4 to be a very mysterious thing.

Nothing mysterious. In your car or truck the oil sits in the oil pan under the motor. all the oil drains to the bottom. On your XR250 or 400 the oil is in the frame, at least it is in the frame when the motor is running or has just been shut off. Once it sits not running the oil drains somewhat out of the frame and settles in the bottom motor.

 If you check the oil after the bike has been turned off for a while the oil will have drained down and it will not show on the dipstick. The oil is still there but it has drained out of the frame.

Just starting it and letting it idle will not always pump all the oil out of the bottom of the motor. That's why you really need to go ride the bike for a bit. you have to allow some good revs and time for the all oil to get back to the top of the frame.

So if you go out and ride your bike a bit, at least long enough to get it warm the oil should show on the dipstick. IF IT SHOWS ANYWHERE ON THE DIPSTICK IT IS SAFE TO RIDE. If you plan to go for anything other than a trip down to the corner you should have it up to the proper level on the dipstick. You should check your oil at the end of your ride. Check it within a couple of minutes of stopping. You don't have to kill yourself trying to get to it fast. Stop take off your helmet and check the oil. This only takes a minute or so. Do it EVERY day you ride.

On a long day say 80-90 miles or more you will likely consume some oil, maybe 200ml or so. I will often show close to half a quart low after a 200 mile plus day.

[ITLKSEZ]

You don't have to kill yourself trying to get to it fast. Stop take off your helmet and check the oil.

I agree with your whole post, except for this part. Maybe whith a brand new machine you could get away with this, but we are dealing with 11 year old machines at best here. Oil pumps and check valves don't hold the oil up in the frame like they did when new, and time is of the essence if you want an accurate reading. Test for yourself - the next time you check your oil, check it again in 30 second intervals to see how much you lose back into the engine. I know mine only takes a minute or two to drop significantly.