CRF450R Gearbox lockup

[john_doe84]

Hi All,

 

New to the forum, just purchased a new 2014 CRF450R and was riding out the bush on some tight technical trails and my rear wheel locked up and stalled the bike!

It would change gear but the sprocket just wouldn't move. I ended up going up and down through the gears a few times while rocking the bike and enventually got it into 5th and while rocking as hard as I could it ended up letting go and rolling back.

 

I rolled it backward and forward for about 5mins trying to "free up" whatever caused it to lockup and off I went again riding like it had never happened.

 

Things to note at the time:

 

The "lockup" happened in 3rd while riding lightly.

Moments before we had stopped for approx 2min.

This is a brand new bike and I was about 1/2 way through the 2nd tank.

 

After speaking to the shop I purchased it from their answer was: "these bikes don't like the bush"

I advised about the place we were riding is no different from a track to which he answered: "These gearboxes when left in the same gear for too long under load will "weld" and then they're buggered".

 

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!!!

Anyway sorry for not being polite and introducing myself but I'm a little anxious and now I'm going to begin the phoning process to find out a better explanation.

[Diggla117]

that shop is full of shit like most dealerships. These bike don't like the "bush" but referring to the cooling system and not the trans...

That's a odd problem tho.. Maybe it just needs to get broke in... Hopefully

Edited June 24, 2014 by Diggla117

[stone881]

That sucks....Honda's aint what they used to be.

[Eddie8v]

Maybe the rear wheel didn't lock up and stall the bike: Maybe the motor seized slightly and locked the rotating parts, locking the wheel! Just a thought... a light seize can works it's way free after things cool a bit and with some rocking, as you did.

Did you drain your engine and trans oils into clean containers and check for particles? Remove the oil filter and check the outside of it for particles?

Edited June 24, 2014 by Eddie8v

[john_doe84]

Update:

Just received a call from the shop asking me to approve a 4hr labour quote to pull the gearbox down and look at it.

 

Honda confirmed: "No warranty whatsoever" !!!!!

 

Less than 2 tanks on a brand new bike. Never crashed, never laid down, oil was full of metal filings.

 

After owning 10+ new Hondas inc cbr600's and 1000's. FKN JOKE!

[john_doe84]

Sorry forgot to include the engine was able to be started and would idle with the clutch pulled in.

[pomoco]

Damn. Maybe I'll keep my 06. Keep us updated.

[nzgsr]

Was it the trans oil or engine oil that was full of metal?

[john_doe84]

Ahh Trans Oil.

Still trying to decipher what the shop means when they say: "Leaving the CRF450R transmission in the same gear for any length of time will cause it to "weld" the gear to the shaft"

 

I've asked them for that explanation in writing. My assumption is anything that's capable of being "welded" in the gearbox is a serious design flaw.

[nzgsr]

What they have told you is BS. Ive done over 200hrs of trail riding on my 05 & 10 crf450's without issue. If there was lots of metal in the gear oil something is seriously wrong in the gearbox. for a bike that is 2 tanks old, I would be pushing the dealer to come to the party and help sort it out. Its not right.

Edited June 24, 2014 by nzgsr

[Diggla117]

^what he said.

Dude if we run mx tracks most of the time(the ones by my house Atleast) we stay in third.

Tight woods second or even first.

If I was you I'd show up and like you said, get their explanation in writing. Document that and if it happens again I'd be in he middle of small claims court. Because like I said earlier if it's really the counter shaft or main shaft locking up then that can split a case real fast.. But like Eddie said if you could go through the gears then it was most likely your rear wheel locking up.. Wouldn't hurt to remove it and make sure nothing got Caught up somewhere or a bearing was installed wrong and fried. Either way the dealership shouldn't change you anything and that explanation they gave you is just ridiculous.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Diggla117

[tvalliere220]

I would talk to honda over the phone yourself. Shop is definitely giving you bs info. Where are you located roughly?

[209mark123]

Are u sure a wheel bearing just didn't lock up? I know that wouldn't account for shavings in the oil but I would not take them at their word about that either, I would ask to see the oil they drained out of it. Also just throwing it out there in my experience usually when a motor is new/rebuilt their tend to be some minor shavings in the oil while the motor gets broke in, could be what they are seeing. The term "lawsuit" tends to make people change their minds as well.

Edited June 24, 2014 by 209mark123

[nesc103y]

If there was metal in the oil its more likely that a clutch fiber might have broken than any other failure.

Then again anything is possible

I'd have a look at the clutch before handing it off to any shop.

[john_doe84]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

To answer all the questions:

The bike would Idle while the clutch was in and letting it out just stalled it.

The rear wheel would move just enough with the slack in the chain, not much obvisouly but enough to know the bearing was OK.

The single trails we were riding were exactly like a track, lots of chainging terrain and lots of gear changing.

When the lockup occured we were actually riding quite slow due to being lost and had a rest moments before where the bikes were left in first.

To get it moving I applied quite a large amount of force to push the bike backwards while in fifth as I assumed the transmission was locked up somehow and I hoped 5th would give me more "leverage" on whatever was causing the lockup. I pushed it back hard enough that the front wheel was off the ground and that worked.

 

Oh and I'm in Australia. Not the land of the lucky as they say.

[nesc103y]

maybe something jammed in the chain/sprocket

[AlStocker]

What shop so I know not to go there?

[azotmx93]

lets see if this is correct:

you bought the bike brand new..

2 tanks of fuel thru it...something like 10hrs-my estimation...

the trans is seized to some sort of degree;;

and your dealer is asking for labor to take it apart- after the mfg. says no warranty..that sounds fishy.

 

First, I wouldn't let that dealer touch my bike if they told me the tranny can weld itself to together- that statement says it all imo. I would call another dealer and take it there- call Honda and inform them and push it up the levels until you get it repaired by competent dealer.

If you have changed oils since taking ownership and within the 2 tanks you should be prepared to show them. I run my bikes 2 hrs then change the fluids when new then again at 5-7 hrs. I want anything that may have been involved I the break in process removed. I hope you can get this taken care of. Barring wrong oils or component failure then it has to be an assembly error.

[Eddie8v]

2 tanks of fuel is nowhere near 10hrs of run time on an mx track or in the woods.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Eddie8v

[Shawn_Mc]

Guessing, Id say 2nd gear on the counter shaft seized up on the shaft. If you were in third and that happened, it'd act like it was in 2nd and third at the same time. No Bueno.

 

The reason I say that, its the furthest from where its supposed to get oiled from and its the only non splined gear that runs on a plain on the shaft and the gear through a bushing. The others that arent splined run on top of a spline through a bushing and I think are less likely to seize up solid. They could, but I think its less likely.

 

It could have been fifth gear too, on the main shaft, but I think thats less likely.

 

How much oil came out of the trans? My question is this:

 

If the right side crank seal failed and the engine sucked all the trans oil out of the trans, you may never know it until it start running shitty and dribbling out out of the air box since there's no longer a window to just glance at the oil level.