died while riding, wont start..searched, and tried lots of stuff..wont start

riding at 70mph..bike cut out..starting stalling..puled over asap..

on side of road i tried starting..motor cranks, no start.. great cranking power..no start tho

oil spelled like gas BAD

 

went shopping got oil, filters,spark plug

came home, started testing. tried ALL tests with BOTH carbs..stock sm, and fcr slant & tested 2 petcocks.. stock sm petcock, raptor non vacuum petcock

 

changed oil,had about .4 of a quart of gas in 2 quarts

 

valves in spec..all in the middle of specs.  .14's & .24's

timing dead on center.. 

checked multiple times to make sure air boots were seated correctly.

vacuum lines hooked up correct

spark plug looked bad..replaced with ngk cr7e (stock cr8e)

 

after repeated attempts..75+ times cranking over..

it seems as if im not getting spark or gas..

i even poured gas down the spark plug hole..cranked it over..and only seen vapor coming out the exhaust..no start

The stator needs to be tested

The stator needs to be tested

will do tomorrow.

anything else?

 

ive read that a piston ring came bind up..or sort of overlap another ring..

 

could it be a coil failure? or weak spark bein supplied?

Disconnect the stator wire 3 pin plug , now try to start it .

Yes, you need to determine if you have spark.  If not, probably a bad stator.

 

You need to determine if you have sufficient compression.  If not, a valve is not closing or the rings are stuck in the piston ring lands

Disconnect the stator wire 3 pin plug , now try to start it .

just tried...same thing.. no start.. cranked it over 10 different times... holding starter down different durations.

 

i just replaced bad staotr with my old 50,000 mile stator

Yes, you need to determine if you have spark.  If not, probably a bad stator.

 

You need to determine if you have sufficient compression.  If not, a valve is not closing or the rings are stuck in the piston ring lands

i tested the spark on the frame..i seen spark,,but thats as far as my spark testing goes..any other spark tests?

 

the valves are in spec,, can 1 still not close?

 

possible dissaseble and check piston rings?

i just need gaskets, piston rings,coolant, oil right?

 

ill have to call around to get a compression tester,,maybe rent 1 from kragen auto

 

i just replaced bad staotr with my old 50,000 mile stator btw

Edited by 707LAKE

What color is the Spark ?

What color is the Spark ?

 

blue

Ok ... Blue is good .... Yeller , not Good

This happened to me too. I ended up having the replace the cylinder and piston. I would check that. My piston rings got messed up and they scoured the inside of the cylinder. ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1406448231.782469.jpgImageUploadedByThumper Talk1406448243.380123.jpg

After I replaced that it fired right up!ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1406448332.054993.jpg

Compression? Where'd that gas-in-oil come from?

The gas in oil comes from a leaky float valve needle. Usually combined with the OEM petcock leaking/failing or gas left turned from a Raptor type petcock. Fuel flows into the carb fills to a point that it flows into intake track and into combustion chamber where it leaks by the rings and into the crankcase.

the stuck ring situation you asked about is possible, yes. what happens is the bike runs hot (for whatever reason) and one/more of the rings gets very hot and rolls it's edges over from sharp to a radius, then forms bigger and bigger until it jams itself in the channel. did this happen to yours, i dunno yet. have to open it to find out. 

 

before i would do that, i would pull the spark plug and spray penetrating oil (pbblaster) in the sparkplug hole, then let it sit for a few hours. if there is any gunk from the gas contaminated oil making the rings stick, this will likely free them. 

 

if it doesn't free the rings (assuming this is the root cause) it's easy enough to pull the head/cylinder, replace the rings and gaskets, then check end gap, etc and be on the road in a few hours. 

 

be methodical with the replacing of the cams and their timing. i see you have the MCCT, so i figure you already know this stuff well. 

 

remember, the compression can't be checked if the autodecomp is in place. 

the stuck ring situation you asked about is possible, yes. what happens is the bike runs hot (for whatever reason) and one/more of the rings gets very hot and rolls it's edges over from sharp to a radius, then forms bigger and bigger until it jams itself in the channel. did this happen to yours, i dunno yet. have to open it to find out. 

 

before i would do that, i would pull the spark plug and spray penetrating oil (pbblaster) in the sparkplug hole, then let it sit for a few hours. if there is any gunk from the gas contaminated oil making the rings stick, this will likely free them. 

 

if it doesn't free the rings (assuming this is the root cause) it's easy enough to pull the head/cylinder, replace the rings and gaskets, then check end gap, etc and be on the road in a few hours. 

 

be methodical with the replacing of the cams and their timing. i see you have the MCCT, so i figure you already know this stuff well. 

 

remember, the compression can't be checked if the autodecomp is in place. 

 

 

cool, ill do the pb blaster trick before i leave today..

how are we supposed to test compression with auto decomp?

cool, ill do the pb blaster trick before i leave today..

how are we supposed to test compression with auto decomp?

I never tried it, but I heard from a TT member that you can use a zip-tie on the auto decomp to do a pressure test. Edited by billdirt1

so i just redid a spark to frame,,bare metal,, a few different spots..

and it shoots blue, BUT its very rare to see a spark

BUT i also have the bike super stripped, NO carb,exhaust,header, all that should NOT make a difference right? just thought id mention how stripped..

 

i want to progress with my issue. im was on the verge of pulling the head off..

Edited by 707LAKE

Disconnect the stator wire 3 pin plug , now try to start it .

 

i redid the stator 3 yellow test with a multimeter..

with it ohm's i got 0..any way between the 3.

i was turning the motor over. with multimeter on AC volts.. and the most i seen between the 3 yellows was 9 volts

 

shouldnt it be in the 50+ range..or it that only while running?

Edited by 707LAKE

At 70mph and rpms to match the gas in the oil is not likely to make it cut out.  Maybe make a bit less power from running rich but not cut out.

 

Q:  Describe your ride from start-up to stall.  How long did it take from start up to getting out of the neighborhood, and how long were you at 70mph before it quit?

      What about the spark plug made it appear bad?

 

At high rpms a ring issue isn't nearly as likely to make the bike stall.  Low compression usually first shows up as low rpm stalls or no-start.

 

Check the stator thoroughly.

 

Coil, rarely a problem.

CDI not likely.

Stator, very likely.  Have you checked for any continuity between the yellows and engine case? 

 

Take the 20 minutes and pull off the stator cover.

At 70mph and rpms to match the gas in the oil is not likely to make it cut out.  Maybe make a bit less power from running rich but not cut out.

 

Q:  Describe your ride from start-up to stall.  How long did it take from start up to getting out of the neighborhood, and how long were you at 70mph before it quit?

      What about the spark plug made it appear bad?

 

At high rpms a ring issue isn't nearly as likely to make the bike stall.  Low compression usually first shows up as low rpm stalls or no-start.

 

Check the stator thoroughly.

 

Coil, rarely a problem.

CDI not likely.

Stator, very likely.  Have you checked for any continuity between the yellows and engine case? 

 

Take the 20 minutes and pull off the stator cover.

 

filled up tank, 3.4gallons. ....   at gas station .1 mile from home.

rode 40miles.. 25crusing highway..15 ripping wot a lot through the twisties..

got off the mountain.. leveled out for 1mile.. 

1st hill i got too,,semi's go so slow they pulll to the side.. so i was passing doing 70mph for maybe 5 seconds and sputter sputter,down shift. sputter sputter..turn left..engines dead before i can stop..

engine re-starts for 20 seconds.. revs sound kinda all over when i rev.

i installed the current stator 1 week ago, it came out of my 50,000mile motor..that bike had similar issues..i wonder if it was just a weak/on its last leg stator

im pretty much seeing no spark now

 

i know how to do these tests for stator:

mulitmeter AC volts at 3 yellows..

mulitmeter OHM's at 3 yellow..

thats it.. im not sure what continuity means its always confused me.

this question you asked confused me also..? "What about the spark plug made it appear bad?"

 

currently waiting for my roomate to get back with his impact gun.. for those lame JIS bolts on the  starter

Edited by 707LAKE

sooo i just swapped stators..with another 20,000 miles stator i have.. 

and spark GALORE!! so much blue spark..compared to the problem stator i just took out, had NO spark at all..

 

need to go buy some coolant and put her together in the morning and try to fire it up..

 

ill update tomorrow

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