Permanent filter...

[cadman_ks]

I have one paper filter left, and then I have to buy more.

While they are not that expensive, I've been changing them at every oil change, and I would probably continue that practice, which may be overkill.

I'm considering going to a "permanent" filter. While they are about $70 from what I've seen, I have it forever. I've been using HiFlo filters, and I get them for about $6/ea. That's 12 oil changes, and I've paid for the permanent.

What brand do people recommended, and is there some reason that I shouldn't do this???

CADman_KS

[woods-rider]

Paper filters filter down to finer particle size than SS filters. Stick with paper and just buy a bunch when you find a deal on them.

Edited July 27, 2014 by woods-rider

[Hans Schmid]

I've used SS filters since day one, I won't even look at it until the 40hr mark. I use them in all my 4ts, never had a issue....

[cadman_ks]

I've used SS filters since day one, I won't even look at it until the 40hr mark. I use them in all my 4ts, never had a issue....

So, key me get this straight. You don't clean it at every oil change? You clean it after every 40 hours?

Wow! I was still planning on cleaning it at every oil change. Maybe that's not needed... Hummmmm....

CADman_KS

[Hans Schmid]

So, key me get this straight. You don't clean it at every oil change? You clean it after every 40 hours?

Wow! I was still planning on cleaning it at every oil change. Maybe that's not needed... Hummmmm....

CADman_KS

Yeah, I clean it every 40hrs. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I cleaned it.... Around December I think. I haven't rode that much since then, maybe 20hrs??

[sirthumpalot]

If the filter rarely needs cleaning then it's not filtering much out of the oil. Whether the oil just isn't dirty, or the particles go right through the bigger holes in the filter is a discussion worth having. I wonder if blackstone can tell how much particulate is in the oil?

[cadman_ks]

If the filter rarely needs cleaning then it's not filtering much out of the oil. Whether the oil just isn't dirty, or the particles go right through the bigger holes in the filter is a discussion worth having. I wonder if blackstone can tell how much particulate is in the oil?

That's sort of my hesitation with using one. I wonder if there are any oil analyses out there that compare that?

That would be interesting to find out.

Even with that being said, another thing that would be worth knowing is whether or not a 30 micron object will take out a motor.

CADman_KS

[Hans Schmid]

Just because I don't clean my filter often doesn't mean I don't keep my oil changed regularly. On top of a rigorous oil changing schedule, I keep a family of clean air filters around for regular changes and I run quality fuel.

[DR.billZ]

Oh no here I go again. Can't help myself. A dirty air filter filters better than a clean one and opening the intake allows the opportunity for stuff to get in. Just a point. Not meant to say... don't clean it.

[sirthumpalot]

the oil screen filters out big chunks that would cause instant damage, the filter removes small particles that accelerate wear but don't necessarily cause instant damage.

[farmboybunk]

I have nothing definitive to add to the conversation, other then to say I ran ss filters on my 07 exc 450 for 5 years without issue. It had two oil filters and I ran both filters with ss filters purchased from Rocky Mountain ATV and would use contact cleaner to clean them every other oil change.

 

After cleaning the filters with contact cleaner I would see small particle come out of it that were smaller then what I would see on the drain plug magnet. It was doing something, but may be debatable if other filters or non-ss filter would do better.

 

I just bought a 2012 XC-W and bought a ss filter for it off of amazon for $30, but I haven't done an oil change yet to install the new ss filter. So no history with the 500 and ss filters yet. 

Edited July 28, 2014 by farmboybunk

[Hans Schmid]

Oh no here I go again. Can't help myself. A dirty air filter, too a degree, filters better than a clean one and opening the intake allows the opportunity for stuff to get in. Just a point. Not meant to say... don't clean it.

Fixed

[cadman_ks]

the oil screen filters out big chunks that would cause instant damage, the filter removes small particles that accelerate wear but don't necessarily cause instant damage.

 

That makes sense.

 

I would like to find some "real" world testimonies from people that have gone a LOT of miles/hours on a SS filter.  That might make me feel better about it...

 

CADman_KS

[Hans Schmid]

That makes sense.

I would like to find some "real" world testimonies from people that have gone a LOT of miles/hours on a SS filter. That might make me feel better about it...

CADman_KS

200±hrs on one SS filter...

[4strokeridertt]

There is not really much to filter out of the oil. Modern cars and trucks now go 7-10,000 miles between changes of oil and filters. The oil in your bike degrades faster possibly but the filter is still nice and clean as nothing is in the oil unless you have a failure.

The only real reason to change the filter at every oil change would be to open it up and unfold it so you could monitor the residue (if any) to plan for future maintenance .

[sirthumpalot]

I disagree; just look at all the bits on the magnetic drain plug, lots of that gets into the oil filter too. Plus the fibers and bits from the clutch plates, and any dirt that gets in through the crank case breather on bikes that have exposed breather hoses. Not to mention any non magnetic bits of metal.

Oil lasts a long time because the oils are better and don't break down as quickly as they used to, and because the filters get the particulates out.

[4strokeridertt]

I disagree; just look at all the bits on the magnetic drain plug, lots of that gets into the oil filter too. Plus the fibers and bits from the clutch plates, and any dirt that gets in through the crank case breather on bikes that have exposed breather hoses. Not to mention any non magnetic bits of metal.

Oil lasts a long time because the oils are better and don't break down as quickly as they used to, and because the filters get the particulates out.

I am in agreement with you that some particulates are there and do absolutely get trapped by the filter.

It is the frequency of changing filters that I think is over done for a recreation use bike. Changing filters every 300 or even 600 miles is probably not necessary.

If racing and your caring for a motor then looking at the product trapped by a filter gives you a lot of information about it's long term health. For a regular "B or C" class recreation dirt rider your going to just tear down your motor every 250-300 hours and go thru it any way. An "A" class racer is going to follow the chart maintenance that is in the manual.

[Hans Schmid]

I am in agreement with you that some particulates are there and do absolutely get trapped by the filter.

It is the frequency of changing filters that I think is over done for a recreation use bike. Changing filters every 300 or even 600 miles is probably not necessary.

If racing and your caring for a motor then looking at the product trapped by a filter gives you a lot of information about it's long term health. For a regular "B or C" class recreation dirt rider your going to just tear down your motor every 250-300 hours and go thru it any way. An "A" class racer is going to follow the chart maintenance that is in the manual.

No, a A class racer will not follow the manual...

[sirthumpalot]

I am in agreement with you that some particulates are there and do absolutely get trapped by the filter.

It is the frequency of changing filters that I think is over done for a recreation use bike. Changing filters every 300 or even 600 miles is probably not necessary.

If racing and your caring for a motor then looking at the product trapped by a filter gives you a lot of information about it's long term health. For a regular "B or C" class recreation dirt rider your going to just tear down your motor every 250-300 hours and go thru it any way. An "A" class racer is going to follow the chart maintenance that is in the manual.

 

I more or less agree, though I would go with a filter change every other or every 3rd oil change.  It's difficult to tell when a paper filter is clogged with fine particles, but I agree that with every oil change is likely not necessary.  But you're correct that you can definitely get a hint of impending failure by keeping an eye on what's trapped in the filter. 

[Spud786]

There is not really much to filter out of the oil. Modern cars and trucks now go 7-10,000 miles between changes of oil and filters. The oil in your bike degrades faster possibly but the filter is still nice and clean as nothing is in the oil unless you have a failure.

The only real reason to change the filter at every oil change would be to open it up and unfold it so you could monitor the residue (if any) to plan for future maintenance .

Usually after a bike is fully broke in, the filters run fairly clean, and replacing every oil change is mostly a feel good thing cause people cant not replace it when changing the oil. Course this has been my experience with various different bikes and not ktm. I know on my drz after about the 3 rd filter, the 2nd one was the worst, I was able to run filters about 4,000 miles with oil changes every 2,000 mile as an example.

On my vfr I run filters close to 8 to 10,000 miles, on oil changes every 2500 miles.

Course if you have a bike that routinely sheds high metal content, that may not work.

As far as permanent filter, the cost of a paper disposable filter is nothing compared to my labor of having to clean one. So I go the disposable route.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Spud786