Engine ice VS regular coolant?

[jeremey_midd]

I've heard engine Ice runs your bike 20 degrees cooler but it also cost about double what regular coolant cost. I was wondering if there is a big enough difference that the cost is worth it?

Edited July 28, 2014 by jeremey_midd

[YZCas27]

I've heard engine Ice runs your bike 20 degrees cooler but it also cost about double what regular coolant cost. I was wondering if there is a big enough difference that the cost is worth it?

yes

[LittleRedToyota]

where did you hear it runs your bike cooler? wherever it was, i wouldn't listen to that source of info...

 

engine ice is just a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol and distilled water. most anti-freezes are ethylene glycol which you then mix 50/ with distilled water (though some come already pre-mixed 50/50 with distilled water).

 

the big advantage of propylene glycol is that it is much, much less toxic than ethylene glycol. propylene glycol is actually somewhat *less* efficient at heat transfer than ethylene glycol, though not enough to matter. it is more expensive, though. that's why most antifreeze is ethylene glycol instead of propylene glycol.

 

it's worth the extra money if you care about toxicity. otherwise, it's not.

[DuncR6]

I've used engine ice once.  Once being the keyword.  It's a waste of money.

[joey330]

where did you hear it runs your bike cooler? wherever it was, i wouldn't listen to that source of info...

engine ice is just a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol and distilled water. most anti-freezes are ethylene glycol which you then mix 50/ with distilled water (though some come already pre-mixed 50/50 with distilled water).

the big advantage of propylene glycol is that it is much, much less toxic than ethylene glycol. propylene glycol is actually somewhat *less* efficient at heat transfer than ethylene glycol, though not enough to matter. it is more expensive, though. that's why most antifreeze is ethylene glycol instead of propylene glycol.

it's worth the extra money if you care about toxicity. otherwise, it's not.

It also quotes it makes your bike run cooler, which I'm not sure about that, what it does is raises the boiling point. I run it in my wife's race quad because it's a piece of crap.

I use Evans in my bikes

[Mr. RMZ]

My bike noticeably ran cooler, I would buy it again.

[LittleRedToyota]

what it does is raises the boiling point.

propylene glycol (engine ice) has a LOWER boiling point, by about 10* C, than regular anti-freeze (ethylene glycol). so, no, engine ice does not raise the boiling point relative to a 50/50 mix of regular antifreeze and distilled water (it actually lowers the boiling point).

further, raising the boiling point of your coolant does NOT make your bike run cooler. it does prevent it from boiling over as soon, but that is not your bike running cooler...it's your bike continuing to run HOTTER instead of you shutting it off because it's boiling over.

I use Evans in my bikes

evans is something completely different from engine ice. and it is a whole other debate...

[joey330]

propylene glycol (engine ice) has a LOWER boiling point, by about 10* C, than regular anti-freeze (ethylene glycol). so, no, engine ice does not raise the boiling point relative to a 50/50 mix of regular antifreeze and distilled water (it actually lowers the boiling point).

further, raising the boiling point of your coolant does NOT make your bike run cooler. it does prevent it from boiling over as soon, but that is not your bike running cooler...it's your bike continuing to run HOTTER instead of you shutting it off because it's boiling over.

evans is something completely different from engine ice. and it is a whole other debate...

I'm not saying anything about engine ice, but this is the claims they are claiming.

Seems to do its job just fine.

Evans, works wonders and wouldn't trade it for anything

[LittleRedToyota]

My bike noticeably ran cooler, I would buy it again.

what was likely happening is that, because propylene glycol is less efficient at heat transfer than ethylene glycol, your coolant was sucking less heat out of your head. thus, the *coolant* was staying cooler, but the head itself was probably running hotter.

many people confuse coolant temps with head temps.

your engine makes X amount of heat. it has to go somewhere...or stay in the engine parts.

[Mr. RMZ]

Naa i don't think so. You're entitled to your own theories though !!

Edited July 28, 2014 by Mr. RMZ

[LittleRedToyota]

Naa i don't think so. You're entitled to your own theories though !!

i'd love to hear the scientific explanation behind the alternative theory...

[Huskydog14]

i'd love to hear the scientific explanation behind the alternative theory...

What is the Evans made of ? Is it worth the extra money? I just got a new husky and was going to use Evans in it.

[joey330]

What is the Evans made of ? Is it worth the extra money? I just got a new husky and was going to use Evans in it.

A. Evans Waterless Coolants have a boiling point of over 180°C far greater than traditional coolants which boil at 100°C. Evans Waterless Coolant also removes the threat of corrosion, electrolysis, liner pitting, water pump cavitation, detonation and over heating.

B.Evans Waterless Coolant is a patented non-toxic liquid comprising of blended heat transfer fluids and a proprietary inhibitor package

You can add water

C.Yes, but only in an emergency. Evans Waterless Coolant is completely miscible with Water, however once you exceed 5% the benefits of Evans Waterless Coolant are compromised. We recommend that as soon as possible you refill with Evans Waterless Coolant to regain its benefits.

Q. What is bad about water in a coolant?

The boiling point of water is only 100°C.

Because an engine operates very close to the boiling point of water,(within the engine block and cylinder head boiling actually occurs), thus causing pressure within the cooling system.

The boiling point of water is the failure temperature of the cooling system.

Water vapour (steam) has almost no thermal conductivity.

Water is aggressive toward cooling system metals and promotes electrolysis between dissimilar metals within the cooling system.

Water contains Oxygen which encourages corrosion in any cooling system.

[joey330]

Evans is the way to go. Well worth it

[ekulb14]

Its not worth it. sorry its just not. For the average dude and stock bike there is no gain. On a personal note i did run it once left the half empty bottle to sit a while and weeks later there are small chunks of white something... not claiming they are harmfull but still i like my coolant clear and green. 

[LittleRedToyota]

What is the Evans made of ? Is it worth the extra money? I just got a new husky and was going to use Evans in it.

I'm not sure what Evans is made of. It's a proprietary formula. It is not regular antifreeze.

Evans is controversial. Here are some points about Evans:

It has a very high boiling point. It virtually eliminates boiling over if your cooling system is working property (and, actually, even if it isn't). This is a good thing and bad thing. It's good in that, once water/antifreeze boils, it becomes about useless as a coolant...which is why it's important to shut your bike down when the coolant starts to boil. By using a coolant that does not boil, you eliminate that problem. Also, if you get a leak that causes your cooling system to lose pressure, water or water/antifreeze will boil much sooner (as the pressure raises the boiling point). Evans, though, does not rely on the pressure in the system to raise the boiling point. So, if you get a leak, the Evans still will not boil.

Not boiling over is bad, too, though. What really matters is not coolant temps, but engine part temps--particularly head temps. Engine damage is caused by overheated engine parts, not overheated coolant. Since most motorcycles (or, at least, dirt bikes) do not have any kind of temp gauge (for either engine parts or coolant), the only way you know that your engine parts are getting too hot is if your coolant starts to boil. By using coolant that essentially does not boil, you risk having your head get too hot without you ever knowing it. As a result, you continue running the bike with the head too hot (and getting hotter) instead of shutting it down to let it cool off.

If you are a racer with a budget, that's OK. It might help you finish a race. If you have to rebuild the engine afterward, so what? If, though, you are a recreational rider/amateur racer on a limited budget, you would maybe rather know the engine is getting too hot and shut it down and just take a break from riding to let it cool off or even DNF a race, but save yourself a lot of money.

However, the people who make Evans claim there is another benefit. They claim that water/antifreeze will boil in localized spots within the engine without boiling over, so you get hot spots in your engine parts and don't know about it. Since Evans basically doesn't boil (at realistic engine temps), it avoids that issue. I don't know how much validity there is to that. It certainly makes sense in theory, but I've never really heard of problems from hot spots caused by localized coolant boiling. Pretty much every heat related engine failure I've heard of (or experienced myself) followed noticeably boiling the antifreeze.

If you do decide to use Evans, I would personally suggest installing a coolant temp gauge so you have some way of knowing if your engine is getting too hot and should be shut down and allowed to cool.

Edited July 29, 2014 by LittleRedToyota

[joey330]

I'm not sure what Evans is made of. It's a proprietary formula. It is not regular antifreeze.

Evans is controversial. Here are some points about Evans:

It has a very high boiling point. It virtually eliminates boiling over if your cooling system is working property (and, actually, even if it isn't). This is a good thing and bad thing. It's good in that, once water/antifreeze boils, it becomes about useless as a coolant...which is why it's important to shut your bike down when the coolant starts to boil. By using a coolant that does not boil, you eliminate that problem. Also, if you get a leak that causes your cooling system to lose pressure, water or water/antifreeze will boil much sooner (as the pressure raises the boiling point). Evans, though, does not rely on the pressure in the system to raise the boiling point. So, if you get a leak, the Evans still will not boil.

Not boiling over is bad, too, though. What really matters is not coolant temps, but engine part temps--particularly head temps. Engine damage is caused by overheated engine parts, not overheated coolant. Since most motorcycles (or, at least, dirt bikes) do not have any kind of temp gauge (for either engine parts or coolant), the only way you know that your engine parts are getting too hot is if your coolant starts to boil. By using coolant that essentially does not boil, you risk having your head get too hot without you ever knowing it. As a result, you continue running the bike with the head too hot (and getting hotter) instead of shutting it down to let it cool off.

If you are a racer with a budget, that's OK. It might help you finish a race. If you have to rebuild the engine afterward, so what? If, though, you are a recreational rider/amateur racer on a limited budget, you would maybe rather know the engine is getting too hot and shut it down and just take a break from riding to let it cool off or even DNF a race, but save yourself a lot of money.

However, the people who make Evans claim there is another benefit. They claim that water/antifreeze will boil in localized spots within the engine without boiling over, so you get hot spots in your engine parts and don't know about it. Since Evans basically doesn't boil (at realistic engine temps), it avoids that issue. I don't know how much validity there is to that. It certainly makes sense in theory, but I've never really heard of problems from hot spots caused by localized coolant boiling. Pretty much every heat related engine failure I've heard of (or experienced myself) followed noticeably boiling the antifreeze.

If you do decide to use Evans, I would personally suggest installing a coolant temp gauge so you have some way of knowing if your engine is getting too hot and should be shut down and allowed to cool.

You my friend wasted your time, everything you said was wrong, re read what I posted above, then google it.

Evans is a wetter, and does much better then water. Get your facts straight before giving wrong info. That was by far wrong....

[LittleRedToyota]

You my friend wasted your time, everything you said was wrong, re read what I posted above, then google it.

Evans is a wetter, and does much better then water. Get your facts straight before giving wrong info. That was by far wrong....

no, it was not wrong at all.

you did nothing but copy-and-paste from their marketing material (life lesson: when people are trying to sell you something, you cannot trust what they tell you). and, even at that, nothing in what you copied-and-pasted contradicts anything i said.

but, much of what was said in what you copied-and-pasted is pointless anyway. anti-freeze also protects against corrosion. so does water wetter (the most efficient coolant is actually straight distilled water plus a little bit of water wetter). so touting the anti-corrosion properties of evans is pointless. evans actually does have some benefits, though...which i outlined in my post.

(just out of curiosity...you said everything i typed was wrong. one of the things i typed was that evans has a very high boiling point. are you actually disputing that? saying it's wrong? saying that evans actually has a low boiling point? i bet not...i sure hope not. so, maybe if you actually do think anything i said was wrong, you should point out exactly what and provide some sort of real argument as to why?)

Edited July 29, 2014 by LittleRedToyota

[mikedabike]

Distilled water and water wetter is actually the most efficient at cooling the engine.  But may not have the same protections as some of these coolants.  Also the pressure of the system prevents boiling also so it actually takes a temp higher than 212 to boil the water.  I have run Distilled water and water wetter in my bikes for years and never had any corrosion or cooling system issues.  Never had any boiling over issues either but most of my stuff is higher speed so cooling usually is not an issue.

[joey330]

no, it was not wrong at all.

you did nothing but copy-and-paste from their marketing material (life lesson: when people are trying to sell you something, you cannot trust what they tell you). and, even at that, nothing in what you copied-and-pasted contradicts anything i said.

but, much of what was said in what you copied-and-pasted is pointless anyway. anti-freeze also protects against corrosion. so does water wetter (the most efficient coolant is actually straight distilled water plus a little bit of water wetter). so touting the anti-corrosion properties of evans is pointless. evans actually does have some benefits, though...which i outlined in my post.

(just out of curiosity...you said everything i typed was wrong. one of the things i typed was that evans has a very high boiling point. are you actually disputing that? saying it's wrong? saying that evans actually has a low boiling point? i bet not...i sure hope not. so, maybe if you actually do think anything i said was wrong, you should point out exactly what and provide some sort of real argument as to why?)

You got to be joking, you are gonna argue a brand when all you can say is out of your ass, until you Have proof, your. Just another dumb ass trying to act smart. At least I post proof. You act smart. Totally different. When you do I will admit wrong