Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

L.ion batteries vs. Bosch YT7B-BS

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I ve lost my Yuasa battery due to stator failure. Long story. Now I am looking for a new one. I ve been following the L.ion batteries for a while. Seems good, small, light, strong enough and can't say cheap. OEM batteries are classic, no need to explain. 

 

I make a short research and found both type works well-no problem (especially with free power mod). But I have some conflicts about "value".

 

http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/4cell.php

 

http://shoraipower.com/lfx09a2-bs12-p50

 

These are 2 popular L.ion batteries which fit DRZ400. Because I am from out of US (Turkey) they cost me more (+shipping). I found best ;

 

Ballistic 4 cell costs : 105 $ (inc. shipping)

Shorai LFX09 costs : 119 $ (inc. shipping)

 

In here Turkey, I found

 

Yuasa YT7B-BS for : 108 $ (which says 85 CCA old model I think and 6.5 Amp/H )

Bosch YT7B-BS for : 60 $ (120 CCA and 7Amp/H)

 

total cost.

 

So I have 2 question

 

1- Shorai has 9 amp/H and 135 CCA which seems very nice, much better than oem. But Ballistic has 120 CCA and 2.3 amp/H  :confused:  What the hell 2.3 amp/h means? Does it mean another thing/value ?? If it is not, how it works with 2.3 amp (Craig-O said he has been using Ballistic 4cell for ~2years with no problem) ?

 

2- Do L.ion batteries really worth ? Any reason to pay more to get similar specs with less dimension and weight ? Just asking... I would like go with Bosch, it is bosch in the end how bad can it be  :thinking:  Almost half price...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some research on L.ion batteries and my conclusion was - it's not worth it unless bike weight loss is your ultimate goal. I don't remember the specifics why but I came across a very good article that spelled it out. I can't seem to dig it back up. I do recall this was a good info thread - http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to stay away from Li-batteries, because I don't want a lithium fire on my bike. I think a standard gel/sealed battery is the best way to go. Brand and specs is a local thing, but if I were you I'd get the Bosch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use Shorai batteries in all three of my bikes and have not regretted it one bit. I put the optional 14 amp battery in the DRZ SM after the original '08 gave out in the spring this year. I also got the Shorai charger - way better than the Battery Tender I had for the lead/acid batteries (you can use either on Shorai's).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Li /Fe motorcycle batteries do not catch fire.  Different technology.  I was very disappointed in 2 Shorai batteries.  The CCA rating is just BS.  Unless you have some over riding desire for a light weight battery, buy the Bosch for $60.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use Shorai batteries in all three of my bikes and have not regretted it one bit. I put the optional 14 amp battery in the DRZ SM after the original '08 gave out in the spring this year. I also got the Shorai charger - way better than the Battery Tender I had for the lead/acid batteries (you can use either on Shorai's).

Why is the charger better then the battery tender charger?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Battery Tender wasn't keeping the Shorai's at full charge, however - it did great on the conventional batteries. Since using the Shorai charger - there has been zero issues with keeping them fully charged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cold definitely affects cranking.  Bur keep trying, as the battery warms up from starting attempts, a Li/Fe battery gets better

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is the charger better then the battery tender charger?

If your question was "Why is a charger better than a tender" then it simply depends on how dead the battery is.

 

A tender connects to the LiFPO battery posts just like you do for a lead acid. This works fine to leave the bike sit just as it would on lead acid. A regular charger will work just fine on LiFPO too and same as lead acid an "Automatic" type charger will help avoid overcharging.

Between a tender and a charger often the tenders are set up to hold a battery at charged status but not 'cook' it by overcharging with possible overheating but are not really equiped to provide any intense charging if the battery is already run down. Some tenders can charge especially for a small battery so reading the specifications is required. A tender can go into 'float' mode and do nothing while it monitors the battery which is what distinguishes a tender from a charger. Many chargers even the "Automatic" ones never completely stop charging so should not be left connected for extended periods.

An important detail is that a charger or tender equiped to desulphate lead acid may not work on a LiFPO because the charger will probably go into the desulphate mode and not charge properly. If the desulphate mode can be switched off then it should work.

==========================

Since your question "Why is THE charger better" and could refer to a 'made for LiFPO' charger

 

A charger made for LiFPO should have the balance cable which plugs into a special connector on the battery and can charge each of the cells separately.  It is possible on some batteries like the LiFPO to have one cell deplete more than others then not charge fully.  This sometimes happens with cordless tools too so you may have experienced it.  Anyway the charger made for these can even them out which makes them last longer and give full power.  I have read that RC (radio control) hobby shops have similar chargers for less money but the ends on the cable might be reversed (male vs female) so you would have to make your own cable up.

You probably will never need this specific balancing charger but it is available should you want it.

 

 

edited to hopefully clean it up a bit and specify that the LiFPO charger is optional.

Edited by slowriding
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cold definitely affects cranking.  Bur keep trying, as the battery warms up from starting attempts, a Li/Fe battery gets better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5KjsbNuXlA

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=youtube+ballistic+cold+weather+start  for other videos

As far as CCA (cold cranking amps) there are ratings which will be more important for different battery chemistries. A LiFPO at low temperatures appears not to crank well but after a few tries it wakes up by self warming and cranks better than a lead acid. The total energy stored in a Li battery is higher so more start attempts can be made. A LiFPO can deliver very high pulses of power for short durations which is good for trying to start but are not ideal for long slow discharge like leaving lights on. I am seeing them used in electric bikes so there are ways around this limitation.

You will see some of the companies state a "lead acid equivalent" because a lot of people lose confidence when they have a 7.5Ah stock lead acid and are being told to buy a 2.5Ah that looks and weighs like a toy. In reality the 2.5Ah LiFPO will outcrank the 7.5Ah lead acid. How many amps can be drawn for an hour isn't the important number when you need 200amps for 2 seconds to start the bike. More important is voltage drop as the current draw increases.

A 2.5Ah 4 cell can crank impressive amounts and it always got my bike started, even in cold weather (-10C) when I needed to richen up a bit and it wasn't starting without cranking. Knowing the problems I had with lead acid batteries when the bike sat while I worked out of town unexpectedly and despite how little care I gave the first LiFPO it lasted well. It always cranked adequately enough for starting though it would sound a bit slow as it came over TDC. This time I went with an 8 cell Ballistic (5Ah) and it works perfect. To be techical an 8 cell is still considered a 4 cell for charging purposes as it is 4 sets in series of 2 in parallel which I mention because on the chargers there is a setting for how many cells.

Edited by slowriding
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally happy here with the performance of the 4 cell Ballistic in my big bore E....

I think technology supports the lighter Lithium battery performance , well for me I am not into carrying excessive baggage around for no reason...

Both lead acid and lithium will get your bike started, it's maybe down to a personal choice to which one your prefer..

Just a suggestion though...if your have a "hard starter" you may want to lean towards the 8 cell Ballistic ,if lithium is what you decide

Edited by Craig-o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CCA performance is impressive of LiFPOs on videos, I didn't know that they can self-warm and re-volt themselves. But I gone with Bosch due to my budget this time. Stator failure, battery and some other maintenance chocked me in this period :( .

 

I read the LiFPO charger vs Battery Tender. I thought charging system of our bikes is similar with battery tender(in theory, it should be). And I wondered how the bike can recharge the LiFPOs if the battery tender can't make it well. I don't know the answer but seeing LiFPOs on bikes for a long period with no problem proves that bike can recharge the LiFPOs, OK.

 

And idea that I have to have! (=buy) or find a LiFPO charger when recharge is needed indisposed me from choice of LiFPOs again due to budget. But a request from a RC-hobby shop for a recharge might be a cheap and easy solution. It won't needed often after all.

 

You will see some of the companies state a "lead acid equivalent" because a lot of people lose confidence when they have a 7.5Ah stock lead acid and are being told to buy a 2.5Ah that looks and weighs like a toy. In reality the 2.5Ah LiFPO will outcrank the 7.5Ah lead acid. 

 

This is the answer of my first question, thanks  :thumbsup:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting how one reads that it is important to use a LiFePo4 specific battery charger..

 

When the battery is installed , the bike's charging system isn't giving any preference to any individual cell and does a fine job at keeping the battery charged.. 

 

I do have the LiPo4 charger and do hook it up to the battery occasionally to see what the status of the battery is and it always reads well above the voltage required....

Edited by Craig-o
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I misunderstand something about teders/chargers can/can't charge LiFPOs ... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use Shorai batteries in all three of my bikes and have not regretted it one bit. I put the optional 14 amp battery in the DRZ SM after the original '08 gave out in the spring this year. I also got the Shorai charger - way better than the Battery Tender I had for the lead/acid batteries (you can use either on Shorai's).

Yeah , it's good having a small / powerful battery .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I ve lost my Yuasa battery due to stator failure. Long story. Now I am looking for a new one. I ve been following the L.ion batteries for a while. Seems good, small, light, strong enough and can't say cheap. OEM batteries are classic, no need to explain. 

 

I make a short research and found both type works well-no problem (especially with free power mod). But I have some conflicts about "value".

 

http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/4cell.php

 

http://shoraipower.com/lfx09a2-bs12-p50

 

These are 2 popular L.ion batteries which fit DRZ400. Because I am from out of US (Turkey) they cost me more (+shipping). I found best ;

 

Ballistic 4 cell costs : 105 $ (inc. shipping)

Shorai LFX09 costs : 119 $ (inc. shipping)

 

In here Turkey, I found

 

Yuasa YT7B-BS for : 108 $ (which says 85 CCA old model I think and 6.5 Amp/H )

Bosch YT7B-BS for : 60 $ (120 CCA and 7Amp/H)

 

total cost.

 

So I have 2 question

 

1- Shorai has 9 amp/H and 135 CCA which seems very nice, much better than oem. But Ballistic has 120 CCA and 2.3 amp/H  :confused:  What the hell 2.3 amp/h means? Does it mean another thing/value ?? If it is not, how it works with 2.3 amp (Craig-O said he has been using Ballistic 4cell for ~2years with no problem) ?

 

2- Do L.ion batteries really worth ? Any reason to pay more to get similar specs with less dimension and weight ? Just asking... I would like go with Bosch, it is bosch in the end how bad can it be  :thinking:  Almost half price...

Pay now or pay later, get the Shoria LFX14  $150.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...