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Automatic fork bleeders?

By cadman_ks,
in 250-530 EXC-F/XCF-W/XCR-W

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Grand Master

cadman_ks

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I've been very lax about bleeding the air on my forks, and I haven't done it as much as I should.

 

Recently, I bled my forks, and I noticed that a LOT of air came out, and I went for a ride right after that.  I was amazed how much difference it made in the forks.  I know that I should bleed them, but it's just something that I haven't gotten into the habit of doing.

 

At first, I was thinking about getting some manual fork bleeders, probably the STR's.  Motion Pro's seem to get a little more negative feedback than these do, but that may also be that there are just a lot of MP's sold.  I don't know.  At the end of the day, "manual" fork bleeders in general appear to be a love/hate relationship, and while there appears to be more people in the love camp than the hate camp, there are still a lot of haters.  As I thought about it, they don't do me any good if I'm NOT going to use them, because I don't use the screws today.  It would be something that I would need to get into the habit of doing.

 

While researching this, I came across these:  AirPro Automatic Fork bleeders.  While they are pricey, this idea makes a LOT of sense to me.  I never have to worry about it, I just ride.  Has anyone had any experience with these?  Do they work well?  

 

CADman_KS

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hezzdown

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I have the STR bleeders on my 300XC and the Motion Pro on my 450 XC-W. Haven't had any problems with either. They both do what they are intended to do. The MP are cheaper in price I think but work just as well as the STR.

I had a set of the KTM power parts bleeders on the 450 at one point. They were okay but they were much harder to press in. Again they did their job, they just weren't as easy to use.

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Hans Schmid

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I've been very lax about bleeding the air on my forks, and I haven't done it as much as I should.

Recently, I bled my forks, and I noticed that a LOT of air came out, and I went for a ride right after that. I was amazed how much difference it made in the forks. I know that I should bleed them, but it's just something that I haven't gotten into the habit of doing.

At first, I was thinking about getting some manual fork bleeders, probably the STR's. Motion Pro's seem to get a little more negative feedback than these do, but that may also be that there are just a lot of MP's sold. I don't know. At the end of the day, "manual" fork bleeders in general appear to be a love/hate relationship, and while there appears to be more people in the love camp than the hate camp, there are still a lot of haters. As I thought about it, they don't do me any good if I'm NOT going to use them, because I don't use the screws today. It would be something that I would need to get into the habit of doing.

While researching this, I came across these: AirPro Automatic Fork bleeders. While they are pricey, this idea makes a LOT of sense to me. I never have to worry about it, I just ride. Has anyone had any experience with these? Do they work well?

CADman_KS

CAD, I did a test for G2 Ergonomics a while ago.... I highly recommend this unit, I bolted them on my 500exc too. They now sit on my YZ 250...slightly less expensive then the other company you mention. These guys invented this product exclusively for Paul Whibley, they did it years before anyone else.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/reviews/product/42952-g2-ergonomics-otf-fork-bleeder/

On my YZ...

20140316_162450_zpsz94zmdxc.jpg

20140316_162432_zpsaqkziamh.jpg

On my KTM...

20131216_213729_zpsyh7mtvkt.jpg

20131216_213516_zpstolqat9f.jpg

20131216_213446_zpsxeehbm4u.jpg

20131216_213357_zpsa9b7ci9m.jpg

20131216_213255_zpsg9fvfxvx.jpg

20131216_2132140_zpsor6q5rpx.jpg

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Grand Master

cadman_ks

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CAD, I did a test for G2 Ergonomics a while ago.... I highly recommend this unit, I bolted them on my 500exc too. They now sit on my YZ 250...slightly less expensive then the other company you mention. These guys invented this product exclusively for Paul Whibley, they did it years before anyone else.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/reviews/product/42952-g2-ergonomics-otf-fork-bleeder/

....

 

 

I remember that thread now.  I'll have to look that company up.  These would still be manual though, not that that is a bad thing...

 

CADman_KS

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cadman_ks

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So it's $70 vs. $85.   A little bit less.  The automatic feature would be worth the difference IF it works!  LOL...  With that being said, it makes sense that they automatics only need a simple one way valve to let pressure off, and it makes sense that the manufacturer could set that valve bleed off at any pressure that they wanted.  In theory, they should definitely work.  In practice is the question.

 

One thing that I didn't say in my original post that I'm a little bit unclear on, and need some clarification.  When you MANUALLY bleed with the screws, you are supposed to have the front wheel off of the ground.  With the automatics, and even the G2's, I'm assuming that the idea is that you can push the button anytime while you're riding.  If that's he case, why does the front tire have to be off the ground for the manuals, and not with these???

 

CADman_KS

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cadman_ks

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My only question is how the auto bleeder adjust? Like during a big g-out, what happens?

 

That's my question too.  What happens on the remotes if you're hitting the button constantly?  Should be about the same thing, I would think...

 

CADman_KS

When I originally tested, I did it with the front wheel always off the ground. After talking with G2, they said Paul just did it whenever he wanted. I tried it that way later and found it made no difference. Press them when you feel like it...

 

That's good to know....  (and I should confess that I don't always have the front wheel off the ground when I do it currently with my manual screws...   :blush: )

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cadman_ks

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I read in a mag years ago that some racers compress the forks then bleed the air out. ...

 

So, I just read the manual.  All it says is lift the front motorcycle on the stand.  It doesn't say that you MUST have the front wheel off the ground.  It also does not say how often you're supposed to perform this operation, or after what situations you should perform it, like a change in elevation...

 

Hummm....

 

CADman_KS

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cadman_ks

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So, I just read the manual.  All it says is lift the front motorcycle on the stand.  It doesn't say that you MUST have the front wheel off the ground.  It also does not say how often you're supposed to perform this operation, or after what situations you should perform it, like a change in elevation...

 

Hummm....

 

CADman_KS

 

 

The owner's manual has something on bleeding the fork's air. I recall seeing it there, but I can't recall the intervals, other than best done when the oil is cool (before the ride) and off the ground.

I always park the bike on a stand so I'll just bleed when I go by.

 

I couldn't believe that it didn't say anything about the interval either, so I went back and checked.  I stand corrected.

 

The interval for bleeding fork legs is "before riding the vehicle", and there is a LONG list of things that you are supposed to check.  That's the only place that it talks about interval.

 

As for the wheel off the ground, it sort of says that in a round-a-bout way as well.  It tells you to put the bike on the stand.  That's all it says in the bleeding section.  BUT, if you go to the section that tells you how to put the bike on the stand, it says that both wheels should be off the ground.  You would think if it were that important to have the front wheel off the ground, they would indicate so in the bleeding section...

 

CADman_KS

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cadman_ks

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You WANT some air in the forks, do you not? Why would you want the forks to have no compressible air chamber?

I DID break off one of my bleeder buttons many years ago in a race. Had to finish the lap with an open fork tube as a result. Front end was all kinds of squish, and not a good squish.

 

While I was reading the manual on this, I came across this statement:

 

(check that) Any excess pressure escapes from the interior of the fork.  I take it to mean from this statement that ALL of the air should escape from the fork, and it should be at 0 pressure and equal to the atmospheric pressure around it.

 

I'm no fork expert, but this is the way that I think about it.  The reason for letting the front wheel all the way off the ground is that you then have maximum extension and maximum air space.  If you bleed off the "excess" air, you're basically getting the fork chamber back to atmospheric pressure.  Now, when you let the bike down, the air in the fork is compressed, but you don't want any more air than that.  You only want the pressure caused by compression, and not the additional pressure caused by the fork acting as a pump (my words).

 

That's the way that I see it, but I could be totally off-base...

 

CADman_KS

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Grand Master

cadman_ks

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Well, right or wrong, I ordered one of the AirProFork automatic bleeders today.  $90 shipped.  I figured for me, and the riding that I do, automatic was better than me remembering.  This way, I don't have to change any of my riding habits.

 

I'll report back when I get it, and get it installed....

 

CADman_KS

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Spud786

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is this something related to white power forks building excessive air pressure?

 Anytime ive released air on a kayaba or showa, its really been a insignificant amount if any, not something I need to spend money on to correct, as in there's a constant issue.

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FORMA MOTO

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is this something related to white power forks building excessive air pressure?

 Anytime ive released air on a kayaba or showa, its really been a insignificant amount if any, not something I need to spend money on to correct, as in there's a constant issue.

 

 SKF seals in the WP seal better. If you put them in Showa or KYB, you build up more pressure too.

All forks do it to some extent.

The better the seal, the more you will notice the harshness building as you ride, as the forks 'burp' in air past the seals.

 

I would not consider the 'automatic' a good idea, nor would venting with the wheel on the ground.

The air volume is for the last 33% of your travel, and is and intregal part of the anti-bottoming.

If you reduce the air pressure by venting during travel, you would be removing this function entirely.

I guess if you are just wood-sing around, you wouldn't notice it.

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