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450 stroker reliability, SM vs S for highway commuter/trail bike

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Hey guys, I'm looking at an 09 SM with a professionally built 450 stroker, hot cams, etc. and wondering if reliability vs a relatively stock bike should be a big concern?

 

I'm also wondering if having an SM with Avon Distanzias would be more appropriate for mixed 65+ mph freeway riding, and trails when not commuting vs just getting the S model and dealing with skinny knobbies getting burnt up on the freeway and being super squirrely in wet pavement conditions.

 

I have a big long post about it in the "help me choose a bike" section, but I kind of wrote a book there, and these are the more important of my questions.

 

I have an 09 SM, or an 07 S that I can buy today, just need some advice on which. I'll link my other post below if anyone is interested or wants to see pix of the bikes.

 

Thanks!

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1098986-buying-drz-today-help-me-choose-please/

Edited by Norcalshadow

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While the S is great for dual sporting...

 

I'd say get the SM for a few reasons.

 

The SM is newer, has more power, has more mods that you'd probably end up doing anyways (such as new seat).  You sound like you're more of a pavement rider, so basically you want the SM.

 

Furthermore it's more expensive to go s > sm than it is to go sm > s.  All you need to do is get a pair of S rims and you will already have the inverted forks and better swingarm adjusters.

 

Avon distanzia's aren't as awesome as you'd imagine for offroading, it's decent for fireroads.  If you are at all serious about offroading then you neeeeeeed S rims.  However, it's very fun offroading as an SM, a real challenge and you can slip around if you're good with your back brake!

 

Does it have an FCR 39?  It being jetted a bit fat is easy as heck to fix.

 

Stroker reliability isn't a concern as long as you keep your valves clearances in check and have upgraded valves.  You can get better springs and kibblewhite valves etc if it doesn't have it already.  Since it is a "professional build" it probably has such upgrades.  Find out also if it has the heads ported too.

 

I'm confused how it has a JE piston but it's not a 470.  Ask him if it has a larger cylinder.  It's fairly easy to put on a larger top end motor, compared to doing stroker mods.  The hard part seems to be done for you.

 

As for the oil leak, it could be the crank case breather box.  Relatively not a big problem.  Hand grips are a 10 dollar fix.

 

I think you have an easy choice here, just keep in mind that this SM was probably ridden a bit hard.  Check the oil for metal flakes at the filter and perhaps check compression.

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If you are going to ride prodominantly street, go SM, alternately, prodominantly off road go S.

Personally, I would rather compromise on road ability, than off road ability.

Your the only person who can decide whats best for YOU.

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Its really about an honest 50/50, I'll commute to school on nice days, and offroad whenever I can haha, I guess the SM is the most versatile machine though so it looks like I'll shoot for that. The other thing is, honestly, the guy selling the SM (2nd owner after the one who had it built) gives me bad vibes, and doesn't seem like he knows what hes talking about, like he said he has 87 octane in it right now because thats all there was where he was at with it... but personally, I wouldn't put that crappy ethanol gas in my lawnmower, let alone anything with 13:1 compression, I'd sooner call someone with a gas can. I like the idea of having the SM, but not if its something I have to fuss with much if any more than a stock rig, thats the dilemma for me. Like I could buy the S, put a flag on it, and go hit the beach right now, but the SM I need to get tires and mess around. I guess it comes down to what I can get comfortable with, so I'll go ride the SM and see if I can make peace with it to where I'm comfortable dropping all my money on it, and if I can't get used to it, then I'll just get the S and call it a day. I was certainly more at home on the S when I test rode it, even on the street with 606 knobs, which tells me something I guess... I appreciate the insight guys, but I guess its really up to my own limited judgment :)

Edited by Norcalshadow

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While the S is great for dual sporting...

 

I'd say get the SM for a few reasons.

 

The SM is newer, has more power, has more mods that you'd probably end up doing anyways (such as new seat).  You sound like you're more of a pavement rider, so basically you want the SM.

 

Furthermore it's more expensive to go s > sm than it is to go sm > s.  All you need to do is get a pair of S rims and you will already have the inverted forks and better swingarm adjusters.

 

Avon distanzia's aren't as awesome as you'd imagine for offroading, it's decent for fireroads.  If you are at all serious about offroading then you neeeeeeed S rims.  However, it's very fun offroading as an SM, a real challenge and you can slip around if you're good with your back brake!

 

Does it have an FCR 39?  It being jetted a bit fat is easy as heck to fix.

 

Stroker reliability isn't a concern as long as you keep your valves clearances in check and have upgraded valves.  You can get better springs and kibblewhite valves etc if it doesn't have it already.  Since it is a "professional build" it probably has such upgrades.  Find out also if it has the heads ported too.

 

I'm confused how it has a JE piston but it's not a 470.  Ask him if it has a larger cylinder.  It's fairly easy to put on a larger top end motor, compared to doing stroker mods.  The hard part seems to be done for you.

 

As for the oil leak, it could be the crank case breather box.  Relatively not a big problem.  Hand grips are a 10 dollar fix.

 

I think you have an easy choice here, just keep in mind that this SM was probably ridden a bit hard.  Check the oil for metal flakes at the filter and perhaps check compression.

im not sure about that. the fact that they used a JE piston means they went cheap building the motor. i dont think i would want to find out what else they did the same thing with...

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Honestly I see the dilemma... my S had D606 knobbies on it and it was amazing on the road considering.

 

I'd highly recommend getting shinko 244 rear and shinko 700 front though.  I'm running that right now and it is a true jack of all trades!

 

The d606 front tire has a horrible headshake past 110km/h.  The rear d606 knobby is amazing in the dirt and good on the street, but the shinko 244 rear can corner much better and can still offroad in wet mud.

 

People who ride sportbikes tell me my S looks badass with dirt rims.  But SM's look badass, too.  Tough choice.

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everyone has an opinion im sure .. mine is if you are going offroad at all get the S .. the super moto 'looks' much better to me and if riding a drz on the street all the time is what i dreamed of i would definitely get the sm .. performance-wise my opinion is your getting pennies return for thousands invested on a drz .. get a 600-1000 street bike if you want to pull away from corvettes, and buying a bike i always look for an untouched one or one that just has basic mods, if its hacked up and modded all over chances are its been ragged on and jerry rigged .. a whole long list of mods reduces the value in my book ..

Edited by cowpie

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If you are going to ride prodominantly street, go SM, alternately, prodominantly off road go S.

Personally, I would rather compromise on road ability, than off road ability.

Your the only person who can decide whats best for YOU.

 

I agree with black_drz.....if you're going to ride street, ride the bike designed and built for it. If you want to dual sport it, get the S model. I only ride dirt so I'm not willing to compromise anything while out there because just being out there most of the time is tentative anyway.

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I agree with black_drz.....if you're going to ride street, ride the bike designed and built for it. If you want to dual sport it, get the S model. I only ride dirt so I'm not willing to compromise anything while out there because just being out there most of the time is tentative anyway.

Yeah, I rode my DRZ on the black top only to join the dirty bits together. ;)

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My answer wont be popular, but if you intend to put a lot of miles on the bike and need to depend on it, you don't want heavily modified with cylinder pistons and cams. Keep in stock mild trim for reliability factor. But you otherwise really wont know till it blows up.

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My answer wont be popular, but if you intend to put a lot of miles on the bike and need to depend on it, you don't want heavily modified with cylinder pistons and cams. Keep in stock mild trim for reliability factor. But you otherwise really wont know till it blows up.

Plenty of high mileage, BB, Stroked with Cams DRZ"s that have proven reliable.

Poor/lack of maintenance is a bigger factor on reliability than a few tweeks  to a under-stressed engine with abundant oil capacity.

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Hey guys, I'm looking at an 09 SM with a professionally built 450 stroker, hot cams, etc. and wondering if reliability vs a relatively stock bike should be a big concern?

 

I'm also wondering if having an SM with Avon Distanzias would be more appropriate for mixed 65+ mph freeway riding, and trails when not commuting vs just getting the S model and dealing with skinny knobbies getting burnt up on the freeway and being super squirrely in wet pavement conditions.

 

I have a big long post about it in the "help me choose a bike" section, but I kind of wrote a book there, and these are the more important of my questions.

 

I have an 09 SM, or an 07 S that I can buy today, just need some advice on which. I'll link my other post below if anyone is interested or wants to see pix of the bikes.

 

Thanks!

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1098986-buying-drz-today-help-me-choose-please/

SM / S dosen't matter, keep (OEM) piston & compression stock for best reliability.

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It is a stroker motor, the shop referred to it as a "true 450". I'm going to assume they probably did the stroker crankshaft which puts it at 424cc, and then a bigger jug as well? It feels very On-Off, and doesn't seem to like maintaining speed at lower rpm if at all. I believe it also has stage 2 hot cams (has cams of some sort), and it has the CF yoshi exhaust, FCR flatslide carb (dunno which one), trailtech vapor computer (why would you want that instead of the stock one?), some crazy LED headlight with 4 bright bulbs that is only on-off, no high or low beam as its set up, and if you stall the bike, it apparently draws so much power that you want to kill the headlight in order to get the bike to start... thinking I'd wanna invest in a kick starter lol.

 

It rides pretty good on the freeway, feels a bit more stable than the S, though I still got speed wobbles at around 70 that would seem to come and go, definitely seems a lot happier at higher speeds though. When I get on it, the thing goes like a bat out of hell, just ungodly fast, and I haven't even felt the throttle pin all the way back to wide open, but it seriously pulls twice as hard as the S from what I can tell. The only other thing I've ridden in my life that made me feel like I could barely hang on like that was an 800 Rotax 2-stroke Skidoo.  All of that said, it still feels too "racey" for me like maybe I'd want to put milder cams in it or something to smooth it out so it wouldn't get out of hand in the woods. It also has aftermarket springs which are way too stiff for me, so I'll have to mess with that. I do have to say its tempting to toss on some wide 17" offroadish meats and go squirt sand like a maniac through every gear. Its definitely a tossup, take an S and make it a bit more street/wild, or take an already wild/street SM and tame it down a bit for dirt.

Edited by Norcalshadow

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I generally agree with that statement, like if I'm buying a car and it has so much as a CAI, its a no-go. The only reason I consider it, is because of the low miles on the build, and that I know the people who built it, and they said the motor will be fine as long as I don't beat the piss out of it, and maintain it well. Its just a question of whether the last guy beat the piss out of it/maintained it before passing it on to me.

 

everyone has an opinion im sure .. mine is if you are going offroad at all get the S .. the super moto 'looks' much better to me and if riding a drz on the street all the time is what i dreamed of i would definitely get the sm .. performance-wise my opinion is your getting pennies return for thousands invested on a drz .. get a 600-1000 street bike if you want to pull away from corvettes, and buying a bike i always look for an untouched one or one that just has basic mods, if its hacked up and modded all over chances are its been ragged on and jerry rigged .. a whole long list of mods reduces the value in my book ..

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After having my big bore bike, I wouldn't go back to stock engine. Of course I came from a sport bike so I want it to handle good on the street. I also have both sets of wheels and that's the only way my SM has handled everything I throw at it. I very quickly grew bored of the stock power, so almost felt lucky when the stock engine blew up. So, for me, an SM with both sets of wheels is the only way to go. I hate how the dirt wheels feel on the street.

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everyone has an opinion im sure .. mine is if you are going offroad at all get the S .. the super moto 'looks' much better to me and if riding a drz on the street all the time is what i dreamed of i would definitely get the sm .. performance-wise my opinion is your getting pennies return for thousands invested on a drz .. get a 600-1000 street bike if you want to pull away from corvettes, and buying a bike i always look for an untouched one or one that just has basic mods, if its hacked up and modded all over chances are its been ragged on and jerry rigged .. a whole long list of mods reduces the value in my book ..

I agree with cowpie here.

 

Street bike for street, dirt bike for dirt is the best option, but if you have to compromise, go with an S.

As for mods, I believe people do mods for performance, not to putt around.  A heavily modded bike would seem very risky to me.

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The stock drz (s) untouched is alittle tepid once past 70 and gusty, but set it up well, it will carve with great stability at high speed through corners, much more so than off the floor, I was actually surprised at how well it would do . You can also put street tires on the S. and it will float over potholes the 17's will fall right into. IMO for tight track(go cart) you cant beat the sm, but for overall street the s is quiet capable.

 

Ive personally not seen any big bore setup with 40 or 50,000 mile on them(from rebuild), But I only modify for reliability or function, always have even with race bikes. I depend on my bikes, and you don't get your money back from modding anyway, but its like a national past time with most motorcyclists, so its a touchy subject, even my race bikes staying stock usually prevents dnf's, if you cant win on a stock bike, just learn to ride faster.

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 if you cant win on a stock bike, just learn to ride faster.

I have heard these words many times from the guy on the top step of the podium.

Marc Marquez said those exact same words to Lorenzo and Rossi after his 10th  consecutive win today. :rolleyes:

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It is a stroker motor, the shop referred to it as a "true 450". I'm going to assume they probably did the stroker crankshaft which puts it at 424cc, and then a bigger jug as well? It feels very On-Off, and doesn't seem to like maintaining speed at lower rpm if at all. I believe it also has stage 2 hot cams (has cams of some sort), and it has the CF yoshi exhaust, FCR flatslide carb (dunno which one), trailtech vapor computer (why would you want that instead of the stock one?), some crazy LED headlight with 4 bright bulbs that is only on-off, no high or low beam as its set up, and if you stall the bike, it apparently draws so much power that you want to kill the headlight in order to get the bike to start... thinking I'd wanna invest in a kick starter lol.

 

It rides pretty good on the freeway, feels a bit more stable than the S, though I still got speed wobbles at around 70 that would seem to come and go, definitely seems a lot happier at higher speeds though. When I get on it, the thing goes like a bat out of hell, just ungodly fast, and I haven't even felt the throttle pin all the way back to wide open, but it seriously pulls twice as hard as the S from what I can tell. The only other thing I've ridden in my life that made me feel like I could barely hang on like that was an 800 Rotax 2-stroke Skidoo.  All of that said, it still feels too "racey" for me like maybe I'd want to put milder cams in it or something to smooth it out so it wouldn't get out of hand in the woods. It also has aftermarket springs which are way too stiff for me, so I'll have to mess with that. I do have to say its tempting to toss on some wide 17" offroadish meats and go squirt sand like a maniac through every gear. Its definitely a tossup, take an S and make it a bit more street/wild, or take an already wild/street SM and tame it down a bit for dirt.

The trailtech vapor computer is a bit lighter, looks better, has a more accurate speedo, has an tachometer and a temperature meter.

 

The sm not liking lower speeds is likely due to having both stage 2 cams.  What you could do is put one stage 1 cam in there and it would give you a good compromise for both low and top end.  Also perhaps the FCR carb was tuned for high rpms, it could be an FCR41 instead of the 39 which is better for offroad.  Also, you could just slap on a smaller front sprocket for better dirt performance.

 

If you buy the S and you get bored of the stock power you will be spending a LOT of money making it faster!  Instead you could have this already done for you on the SM, and just buy some dirt wheels.

 

Also with that crazy LED headlight, just get yourself a battery tender and you shouldn't have to worry.  Although the kickstarter is never a bad idea!

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It would be interesting to know what Exactly has been done to The motor , you can only Assume at the moment .

A True Stroker built correctly with the right parts , has no Reliability issues .

The Vapor speedo has a Tach , maybe that's why it's been fitted .

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