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XR500R/XL600R Frankenstein - Charging Issues

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Hey everyone!

 

New to the forum! I am currently working on an 1983 XR500R / 1985 XL600R frankenstein project. The bike was sold to me as an XL600R with the front and rear suspension of an XR500R, but after doing some work on it I realized that the engine is also from the XR500R.

 

The bike runs - surprisingly well for as old and poorly cared for as it looks like it was - but I can’t seem to get the charging system going. Here is a little background on what I’ve done to it:

 

I bought a new Motobatt battery for the bike hoping that was all the issue was, but after realizing that it had an XR500 engine I bought an aftermarket XL600R Niche Industry stator. The stator went right in and after a couple hours of riding it looked like it was charging the new battery - read about 14.5 volts across the battery terminals @ 4000rpm. 

 

During the next day of riding however the battery died after a couple hours. I got home and it was no longer reading an increase of volts at 4000rpm (though I was checking this on the dead battery - could this mess up the reading?). 

 

I check the resistance on the stator and the exciter and charging coils were reading less than the manual specs (190ohm on the exciter and around 0.5ohm on the charging - manual specs are 235-319 on the exciter and .95-1.3 on the charging).

 

So I figure something is wrong with the stator and I contact Niche and the send me a replacement no questions asked. The weird thing is - the resistances on the replacement they sent read exactly the same. I start poking around and find that the RSXL600 stator that Ricky Stator makes should read about the same too (http://www.rickystator.com/04technical/stator_specs01.html). So maybe the stator is okay? I’m not sure.

 

The next thing I try is replacing the regulator/rectifier with one from Caltric. I charge up the battery, put the new regulator/rectifier on and its reading 14.5V again when revved at 4000rpm. But again, riding it the next day the battery drains and I’m not getting any tail lights or turn signals.

 

So I’m curious if anyone has any insight into what the problem might be and how they might go about testing it. I feel like I know just enough to get myself into trouble and I’m hesitant to keep buying new electrical parts as I’ve heard that one issue in an electrical system can ruin the whole thing.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Wes

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Thanks for the giving the name of the parts manufacturers, that really helps.

From what I found about the Niche stator you have, it's a higher than stock output, like many aftermarket XL600R stators. It will fry the stock regulator/rectifier, the stock unit simply can't handle anything more than the stock stator.

The DC charging system on the XL600R ( Euro E-start models not included) is of very low capacity and the regulator/rectifier is built to handle that low output system.

The Caltric regulator/rectifier is a stock replacement unit, I know, I have one.

You have to install a more heavy-duty regulator/rectifier for the high output stator or you'll just keep frying them. Ricky Stator or one of the other stator manufactuers mentions that on their site and also sells a higher capacity regulator/rectifier. The unit you need will have cooling fins, if it's smooth like the stock one, it won't handle that stator.

The regulator/rectifier has battery power at all times, even when the ignition is off. It's not using any power when the enngine is not running, but when you fry it, it may cause an internal short and that is what is draining the battery. Also, when it's fried, it may not be letting charging current get to the battery when the engine is running.

If you keep riding with a fried regulator/rectifier, it's very likely you'll eventually fry the stator too.

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Hey!

 

Thanks for the quick response! I think you have something there - i finally got around to inspecting the bike and upon taking off the regulator rectifier i found this:

 

blown_rr.JPG

 

So - looks like the stator is indeed blowing out the regulator/rectifiers.

 

Upon looking around I found this regulator/rectifier:

http://www.trailtech.net/7004-rr150

 

Does anyone have any experience with this?

It says on the site that it requires a floating ground. How do I know if the stator I have already has a floating ground, or if I need to modify it to work?

 

Thanks again in advance!

Wes

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It doesn't seem Ricky Stator mentions needing a more robust reg/rec, but this site does: http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1983-1987-Honda-XL600R-XL-600R-High-Output-Stator

 

The problem is, I can't find the "443" they suggest is offered.

 

From what I can tell, if you float the ground, you'll have to convert the headlight to DC as well. You'll have to give up the current AC/DC configuration of the headlight and charging system. That's not a huge deal, I prefer the AC headlight myself, but if you want to switch to a LED or HID headlight, you'll need DC anyway. Maybe you don't have to give up the AC, but that's what a tech line is for.

 

All of the E-bay reg/recs I looked at had stock photos in the listing, which doesn't help anything. Without an actual photo of the part you're buying, you don't know how many wires it has. Unless you know for sure which wires are what on the replacement reg/rec, you risk frying something. They better have very good directions on how to install it on the particular bike, or you should avoid it if they don't have a fantastic tech line to aid in installation. It looks like a lot of them are just leaving it up to the buyer to figure out.

 

When you figure out what works, please let us know. The high output stator question for the XL600R gets brought up occasionally, but I don't think a solid solution is ever posted.

 

There has been a member who installed a much higher output stator (from a Honda street bike) on the XR650L and he also found out which reg/rec would work with it because the output was higher than the stock one could handle. Why it's any more difficult to get the needed parts for the XL600R without electrical system modification doesn't make a lot of sense.

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OK, after looking at the PDF for the Trail Tech reg/rec, it does indeed look like you'll have to convert the headlight to DC. http://gallery.trailtech.net/media/instructions/lights/regrec/010-ELV-116.pdf

 

You may want to check out threads about people using that exact unit to modify a XR600R for dual sport use, because that is essentially the system you'll have, a DC charging system with a stator supplied ignition circuit.

 

On a positive note, you'll be able to toss the AC regulator, because that is only for the AC powered headlight.

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Hey Onederer!

 

Thanks for looking in to this!

I did a little more research as well and I came across this old thread where you and cleonard discuss another Ricky Stator regulator rectifier.

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/660853-xl600need-a-new-12v-rectifierregulatorknow-where/

 

http://www.rickystator.com/catalog/single-phase-rectifierregulator-p-88.html

 

This is the regulator rectifier mentioned. After reading the post it looks like this might solve the issue without requiring and new wiring set up. Really good read explaining what the reg/rec wires do too!

I'm gonna call Ricky Stator tomorrow to double check that this is a safe bet and if I get the go ahead I will try it out and let you all know how it goes.

 

Thanks again!

Wes

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Just to chime in on this, i had replaced my stator as my dc charge system and headlight coil had gone out.  I bought a catric regulator/rectifier and subsequently went through three more that year.  I found a rectifier at www.regulatorrectifier.com/  .. a bit pricey for what i wanted to spend but i have NOT had any charging problems since i bought it.  and it a complete plug an play :p

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1983-1987-Honda-XL600R-Regulator-Rectifier-85367

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i have done the "much larger" stator from a street honda - 330w > caltric regulator on an xr650l with average current demands. so mr. caltric did not last for long and i toasted a battery. solution was a quality regulator. bike died on a sunday night and jack (his website) was not too far away and as he works out of his house he was willing to hook me up (SH847 superkit for $200).  interesting website, not real cohesive, but worth looking at...

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I know Im late to the game but anything caltric is garbage. I had bought 3 of those damn rr and everyone left me lightless. Lesson learned. I found the easiest way was to replace the stator, rr, and other stuff with Ricky stator products. The trail tech rr is also great. Hope this helps

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