What if?

[pete11]

What do you guys think two strokes would be like if companies put the money and time in development and research? That's saying if there were no four strokes.

[MaybeMe]

I dunno. Probably better suspension, slightly better motors, and they probably would cost about $8000 for a 250 2t.

The bikes are really good as they were back in '07, and there's not much more you can innovate and revolutionize.

I'd imagine technology for them would top out eventually and wouldn't be able to be advanced since when you think about it, the only way they could possibly innovate the engine's anymore, is by making them simpler, and direct injection.

Pretty much all dirt bikes are advanced as far as they can go.

How much farther do you think any manufacturer can innovate and evolve any current four strokes or two strokes?

[dirt1080]

Service honda...

[Arctic Pride]

There's not a whole lot more room for advancement in 2T tech...Snowmobiles have been running batteryless EFI in most and Direct Injection in some for a bit now but other than that you're looking at small time improvements.

 

The "future" is better 4t tech, E-bikes and hybrid...

[zotis777]

I dunno. Probably better suspension, slightly better motors, and they probably would cost about $8000 for a 250 2t.

The bikes are really good as they were back in '07, and there's not much more you can innovate and revolutionize.

I'd imagine technology for them would top out eventually and wouldn't be able to be advanced since when you think about it, the only way they could possibly innovate the engine's anymore, is by making them simpler, and direct injection.

Pretty much all dirt bikes are advanced as far as they can go.

How much farther do you think any manufacturer can innovate and evolve any current four strokes or two strokes?

You're joking?

Two strokes can get DI and port timing, pipe, and compression changes to make then as linear and tractable as a 4 stroke. Better fuel delivery coupled with a light but still strong rotating assembly and get it to rev as high too.

Four strokes can get closed loop efi if we like to complicate things, more advanced ecus with traction control altitude compensation, all the electric bullcrap cars like. On top of it they can switch to a camshaft less variable timing system with pneumatic valves and more electric bullcrap and be like current formula racers. It may seem complicated and hard to work on but that's the future for bikes

[handreasen]

I wonder what the Model A Ford would be like today if they developed that and there never was a Mustang?

[Hans Schmid]

Look at a KTM 250SX, that's about close where 2ts would be...

[CBus660R]

Look at a KTM 250SX, that's about close where 2ts would be...

This is as good as it get's as long as the market wants the smokers to cost a good bit less than a thumper.  KTM has had a production ready DI smoker design for a few years, but the MSRP would be inline with a 500EXC, so they will not bring it to market until either government regulations outlaw carbs all together or the market research shows that we are ready to pay $10,000+ for a (non smoking) smoker.

[MaybeMe]

You're joking?

Two strokes can get DI and port timing, pipe, and compression changes to make then as linear and tractable as a 4 stroke. Better fuel delivery coupled with a light but still strong rotating assembly and get it to rev as high too.

Four strokes can get closed loop efi if we like to complicate things, more advanced ecus with traction control altitude compensation, all the electric bullcrap cars like. On top of it they can switch to a camshaft less variable timing system with pneumatic valves and more electric bullcrap and be like current formula racers. It may seem complicated and hard to work on but that's the future for bikes

No, I'm not joking.

That's all small stuff, besides the DI. Everything else is stuff that can already be done without a lot of testing. DI would require extensive testing and would begin another era for 2ts. The rest is just fiddling with current designs until you get what you would like it to be.

I agree with camshaftless timing. It would be a good change in my eyes. Four strokes can still get a good amount of technology made for them to make them faster and have more torque.

I would really like to see a hybrid bike. Maybe even a small cc four stroke like a 150 or 200 that is electrically assisted in the drive train. Have the stator extend the stroke through a motor and give more power every combustion cycle.

Could also be helpful to use an electric motor used for idling and low speeds. The motor would keep the engine warm and start it when you get past half throttle in first gear, or switch to first.

It'd make a nice trail bike...

[dirt1080]

Solinoid operated poppet valves! Thats a headache and a half for mechanics like me. Although engine mapping would be great mild for the trails than wild for track.

Edited August 13, 2014 by dirt1080

[The Spanky]

Pretty much all dirt bikes are advanced as far as they can go.

 

 

 

There were probably people that said the same thing when the Elsinore came out. And again when reed valves were introduced. And again when linkage suspension came out. And again with liquid cooling, disc brakes, power valves...

[The Spanky]

I wonder what the Model A Ford would be like today if they developed that and there never was a Mustang?

 

 

It probably would have taken it 100 years to get independent rear suspension just like it did the Mustang...?

[dirt1080]

It probably would have taken it 100 years to get independent rear suspension just like it did the Mustang...?

that live axle SO advanced Edited August 13, 2014 by dirt1080

[MaybeMe]

There were probably people that said the same thing when the Elsinore came out. And again when reed valves were introduced. And again when linkage suspension came out. And again with liquid cooling, disc brakes, power valves...

You're right, I'm wrong.

Didn't really look at it like that. I just can't think of anything obvious that could be improved on, unless they can make a cylinder plating that never wears, and some way to make the bikes faster than they already are.

Suspension could be improved upon I suppose by playing with configurations, materials, oils, and other stuff to make it smoother and lighter.

[CBus660R]

Suspension could be improved upon I suppose by playing with configurations, materials, oils, and other stuff to make it smoother and lighter.

I'm intrigued by GM's magnetic ride suspension (or whatever its called). It's advanced enough that Ferrari licenses it from GM. Have it hooked up to a speed sensor. Have plush for low speed then firm for high speed automatically.

[MaybeMe]

I'm intrigued by GM's magnetic ride suspension (or whatever its called). It's advanced enough that Ferrari licenses it from GM. Have it hooked up to a speed sensor. Have plush for low speed then firm for high speed automatically.

Magnets... Those are the answer for everything!

We must jury rig magnets to our crank shafts to produce a magnetic field that aids in the flow of fuel and prevents the rear shock from bottoming out!

I shall put magnets in my crankcase right away!

[Speedy1210]

More powaa is always better ?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Speedy1210

[MaybeMe]

More powaa is always better ?

GREAT IDEA!

I'll tape some M80s to the back of my chest protector and light them.

As they go off, I'll drop the clutch and the concussive force from them will give me the holeshot, guaranteed!

[Speedy1210]

GREAT IDEA!

I'll tape some M80s to the back of my chest protector and light them.

As they go off, I'll drop the clutch and the concussive force from them will give me the holeshot, guaranteed!

Now take this idea to manufacturers and you could be a MILLIONAIRE!

[MaybeMe]

Now take this idea to manufacturers and you could be a MILLIONAIRE!

They could even make a dispenser in the cylinder that drops them into it above the piston to give it an extra kick!

BOTTOM END POWA HERE I COME!