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cam timing advice

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I pulled my cams last night to do the shims in my 01 e model? Following the instructions on here, and with the flywheel mark lined up in the middle of the window and the cam lobes at 10 and 2 the arrows on the cam sprockets were not quite level with the top of the head. My question is when I put it back together should I line them up with the head or put them back how they were?(I took photos)

Any advice would be most appreciated

Cheers Mark

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You lost me.  Post the pictures.  As the cam chain wears the cams will retard a little.  The only correction is to replace the cam chain.  There is no way to make small cam timing adjustments.  If you were to advance the cam a full tooth, that would be way too much.  Someone may point out that small adjustments can be made with adjustable cam sprockets or even moving the existing cam sprockets but I don't think that is what you are asking.

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Here we go

20140813_212951.jpg

And

20140813_212941.jpg

These were taken with the flywheel mark lined up in the middle of the window and the cam lobes at 10 and 2 hope that makes sense

Cheers Mark

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Here we go

20140813_212951.jpg

And

20140813_212941.jpg

These were taken with the flywheel mark lined up in the middle of the window and the cam lobes at 10 and 2 hope that makes sense

Cheers Mark

It appears you have 15 pins cam arrow  to cam arrow

It appears you have cams at 10 & 2

You say the flywheel index  line is in the center of sight window

If the cam chain tensioner is installed or the chain guide is otherwise tensioned... then I see nothing wrong with your cam timing. 

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Poor lighting and parallax in the view, a little photoshop and I can see the EX mark.  but yea looks fine for normal wear.

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It was running fine like that so I'm assuming I can put it back like it was, with the horizontal arrows not quite level with the head as long as it's at tdc and has 15 pins between the vertical arrows?

Cheers for the replies

Mark

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Well i've put it back together and spun it over gently by hand and it seems ok. If anything was amiss it wouldn't spin over right?

 

the reason you're not exactly parallel with the face is that the chain is worn, so it's longer, and the cams don't line up perfectly anymore. it's 1/4 tooth off (guessing) from perfect, which means little/nothing. actually, that's pretty good for an early model that's been ridden like a banshee (does anyone baby an E ?) ;-) 

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Ok so I got shims and put it back together following the service manual, spun it over by hand and re checked the clearances and WTF The 0.1mm thinner intake shims only opened them up 0.04mm(still out of spec). So I pulled them and reinstalled them thinking I'd done something wrong, but that made no difference. Am I missing something or did I stuff up the initial measurement and confirmation recheck which yielded the same numbers ?

Cheers mark

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Ok so I got shims and put it back together following the service manual, spun it over by hand and re checked the clearances and &%$#@! The 0.1mm thinner intake shims only opened them up 0.04mm(still out of spec). So I pulled them and reinstalled them thinking I'd done something wrong, but that made no difference. Am I missing something or did I stuff up the initial measurement and confirmation recheck which yielded the same numbers ?

Cheers mark

  1. You stuffed up the original measurement.
  2. You stuffed up the after measurement
  3. You did not get the parts clean and debris are affecting the measurement
  4. You did not rotate the motor enough after shim install to ensure shims are seated and oil was squeezed from all contact surfaces. 

Math does not lie

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Ok so I got shims and put it back together following the service manual, spun it over by hand and re checked the clearances and &%$#@! The 0.1mm thinner intake shims only opened them up 0.04mm(still out of spec). So I pulled them and reinstalled them thinking I'd done something wrong, but that made no difference. Am I missing something or did I stuff up the initial measurement and confirmation recheck which yielded the same numbers ?

Cheers mark

if you go too small with the shim it won't protrude above the retainer it sits in and thus... won't change the valve clearance. If this is the case it's time for a valve job.

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if you go too small with the shim it won't protrude above the retainer it sits in and thus... won't change the valve clearance. If this is the case it's time for a valve job.

Yes, but no, or not likely.

It would take a VERY thin shim to cause an issue.

Dont forget there is a "protrusion" on the underside of the cap that makes contact with the shim. That protrusion is smaller in diameter than the retainer center hole.

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The current shims are 2.35mm in both intake and 3.00mm L and 2.95mm R in the exhaust. I guess I'll go through the process again and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help guys.

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Yes, but no, or not likely.

It would take a VERY thin shim to cause an issue.

Dont forget there is a "protrusion" on the underside of the cap that makes contact with the shim. That protrusion is smaller in diameter than the retainer center hole.

I had this happen a couple times on different motors (crf250 and zx6r) but I'm not too familiar with the drz valves since I've only checked mine once and they didn't need adjustment...but thanks for the info. :)

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Well I worked out why the shims weren't moving the clearances as they should and yes it was operator error. I was reading the feeler Guage in thousandths of an inch instead of metric what a goose.

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