Air / Fuel Ratio measurements: who offers a good package

[FORMA MOTO]

I want to fine tune my WR450 with engine mods, and think that getting an A/F meter, and doing static and load tests at different throttle positions will reveal what is going wrong with my jetting.

 

Am I on the right track?

 

Is there a Real Time system or kit available?

[minimadness047]

Whats the bike doing? Theres a few different wideband setups out there.only problem is where to mount the o2 sensor without affecting readings or exhaust flow.What all mods have you done?

[FORMA MOTO]

Whats the bike doing? Theres a few different wideband setups out there.only problem is where to mount the o2 sensor without affecting readings or exhaust flow.What all mods have you done?

Tons

Cams, porting, carb, pipe, ignition, etc etc.

It's rideable, but there are two flat spots I can't figure out.

I see lots of 'kit's out there, but they look low-quality.

I want something I can use for years.

I would weld a bung into the stock header.

[minimadness047]

Check into innovate I've used alot of there stuff on supercharged cars and they make a good quality setup.wheres the flats spots come in at on the throttle?

[FORMA MOTO]

It's a needle issue. 

Can't figure out the length and taper and diameter combination I need.

I usually can get it just fine seat of the pants, but I have a problem with 3/8 throttle and above unless the rpms are up above 6k.

The stock 2005 YZ450F needle so far has been the best, but It seems odd to me.

[William1]

Innovate and Dynojet have good, five withe wide band setups that log. I use a Dynojet and then after tests, upload to a PC abd graph the data.

http://www.widebandcommander.com/wbc_productinfo.aspx

You do not need the gage (I've never used mine) so I'd search for a kit that does not have one, save some money.

[FORMA MOTO]

That makes sense.

I don't want or need the gauge, just the data.

 

Do you find it works well for jetting concerns?

 

Do you feel it is a workable product for jetting changes, even without using a dynomometer?

[some guy]

The innovate system is nice, you can just use a laptop and a boshe lsu4 sensor used on German import cars available cheap at most part stores,

You can log your data or even use a voltmeter as a a/f gauge without the laptop.

[FORMA MOTO]

This looks like the way to go, for me

 

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16321&cat=0&page=1

[RalleyTuned]

Keep in mind though, simply logging afr ratios will not give you enough info to do any carb tuning. All you will have is a whole bunch of data points with no scale of reference. If you don't use a guage to do readings while riding, you need to at least log 2 other parameters to be able to use the afr readings.

It expensive to log other data, just get a gauge that you can easily see and then you can remember the rpm area and throttle loads at each "issue" spot. Some people use a go pro and talk to the camera to remember the info to use later for jetting changes.

The innovate mtx guage or AEM Uego are both really nice gauges with integrated wideband controllers, they go from 140-200 and those are plug in and go.

[William1]

Loggers track A/F numbers, RPM and TPS (if you want) Though instead of logging TPS, I made a mental note of the exact throttle position (easy to do as every test is a steady state throttle position), I'd do a few runs then D/L the data

 

 

 

[RalleyTuned]

Yes, a datalogger will capture that data if you have the sensors for it to see rpm or tps. The wideband 02 gauges mentioned in this thread do not have that capability, they simply read afr's.

As I said though, logging data more than simple afr gets expensive, 140 bucks and you can have a gauge that coupled with some simple testing and common sense, and you have the tool to totally tune the bike. My 2 datalogging setups cost 300 bucks each and I had to add external sensors to adapt to any motorcycle, I am into both much more to get them to read more than afr haha

[kan3]

Personally, I bought a data logging setup with gauge used off ebay.  I just ended up slapping the gauge on the bike and used that for testing.  Never even looked at the data.  I just wandered off somewhere remote and made changes real time on the side of the road. =]

Edited August 22, 2014 by kan3

[FORMA MOTO]

I appreciate all the info, and I  think a gauge is the way to go for me, at this point. 

[RalleyTuned]

You will need a dc power supply for the gauge, does your bike have a battery already? You will want to run it off your battery or run a seperate batt. to run the gauge. Steady/constant 12v will be needed to get repeatable results.

Then draw some marking lines on your throttle so you can visually see off, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and wot.

A tach would be nice but you will also be able to know pretty easily with that basic info which jets to adjust and by how much.

2 tips I would give is write down each change and the result, even when its perfect and you don't plan to change it, and make small changes, 1 change at a time and document the results. This will make it a whole lot easier and you can easily work backwards

[FORMA MOTO]

You will need a dc power supply for the gauge, does your bike have a battery already? You will want to run it off your battery or run a seperate batt. to run the gauge. Steady/constant 12v will be needed to get repeatable results.

Then draw some marking lines on your throttle so you can visually see off, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and wot.

A tach would be nice but you will also be able to know pretty easily with that basic info which jets to adjust and by how much.

2 tips I would give is write down each change and the result, even when its perfect and you don't plan to change it, and make small changes, 1 change at a time and document the results. This will make it a whole lot easier and you can easily work backwards

Dual sport with battery

Marking throttle into 6 sections

Tach on ride computer

Yes, I know all about selective and romantic memory errors in data collection!   Write down everything quantitatively with a qualitative comment.

[William1]

Yes, a datalogger will capture that data if you have the sensors for it to see rpm or tps. The wideband 02 gauges mentioned in this thread do not have that capability, they simply read afr's.

As I said though, logging data more than simple afr gets expensive, 140 bucks and you can have a gauge that coupled with some simple testing and common sense, and you have the tool to totally tune the bike. My 2 datalogging setups cost 300 bucks each and I had to add external sensors to adapt to any motorcycle, I am into both much more to get them to read more than afr haha

No, I know for a fact the DynoJet (and AFAIK, the Innovate) both have two or more additional channels for logging rata, one of which is RPM and the others, voltages (which is TPS). Look at the chart I posted, that data is from the DynoJet. I do not bother with the TPS because it is more trouble to calibrate the voltage than it is worh. You also will not catch me staring at a gage while riding.

[RalleyTuned]

I mis spoke when I said "none" of the ones discussed, yes the one you posted can, its also $500.

The point is, you don't have to spend $500 to tune your bike. Its very simple to do with only a wideband gauge. Also I would hope no one stares at a gauge when riding, tuning should be done in a controlled environment where you are not focusing on riding, only tuning the bike. A long straight road is great, abandoned air strip, etc.

Carb tuning should be done on its own, you should only be working on that and not trail riding, riding a track etc. If you dont want to dedicate an afternoon to tuning, you could spend the extra money on a datalogging setup.

[Blutarsky]

I used a Tech Edge set up.  About $400 AUS when I bought it.

 

http://www.wbo2.com/

 

With an FCR carb....I worked my way "out to in". 

1.  Get the main right (full throttle)

2.  Get the Pilot right (1/8 throttle)

3.  Get the needle and needle position right (mid throttle)

4.  Get the AP timing and leak jet right (kill the bog)

 

You do the main first, because it is not really effected by any other circuits when wide open.  You need a wide, flat, safe road.  Lug the thing in 3rd...and go full throttle...and wind it out.  Watch the meter.  You want to see 12.8-13.2 AFR.  The air jet is fixed on many carbs.  If your mixture, wide open, varies with RPM...then air jet adjustments are made.  When I tuned my bike, the AFR held steady as RPM varied, meaning the air jet, which was fixed on my bike/carb, was correct by Yamaha.

 

Next...get the pilot jet and pilot screw right.  I cut off my grip, installed parts of a bark buster, put a split shaft collar on the throttle tube...and made a little bracket so I could create a false throttle stop.  I set it to 1/8 of total throttle travel.  I would accelerate using 1/8 throttle...and watch the AFR.  Again....try to get it to 13.  If you are close...you can just tune with the pilot srew.  If you are way off...you may need to change the pilot jet.  After these two are right...then worry about the needle, and its position.  For that...set the throttle at about 45%.  Adjust the needle position to get the mid range mixture right.  After you do that...go back and check the main and pilot circuit again.  Sometimes you have to go round a few times.

 

When all that is right, set the AP timing per the manual and play with the leak jet to minimize bog.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Blutarsky