Difference Between the 2012 & 2014 Mapping 500 exc

[scooter12]

Does anybody know what update or the difference is between the 2012 Euro and the January 2014 Euro ECU mappings for the 2014 500 exc?  Dealer said he has them both but was not sure what the January 2014 update changed..

[Ud_Luz]

If I had to guess it was something for Euro closed loop emissions. It may have changed little if it all for open loop like we run.

The dealer could easily load both on his XC1 tool and actually tell.

As far as I can tell experimenting with maps and the TPS, it doesn't seem to make much difference which map you run if you adjust the TPS slightly. I'm sure on a dyno you might see it but seat of the pants, no.

[scooter12]

Ok.  I sent my ecu in for my 2015 500exc after installing an FMF 4.1 and the mechanic asked which euro map I wanted and he didn't know what the difference was..

[sirthumpalot]

If you've got to take a complete guess at it, take the newer one.  It's closer to the year of your bike so it's probably better suited to any motor changes that were made, plus it's newer so it would have any tweaks that would have been put in based on feedback from the older models.  IMHO anyway. ?

[FORMA MOTO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nma7QOvD1dk

[OrangeKoolaid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nma7QOvD1dk

I purchased his tool after getting the tps tool and setting my tps with the volt meter. I set it with the volt meter to .70 and with Dave's tool plugged with 5v to the tps sensor it was set at .68. I took his advise and set to where he told me and my bike runs perfect. Couldn't be happier

[sirthumpalot]

It's funny this guy referenced me, my tool must be putting quite a dent into his magic mod service. It's unfortunate that his info about using the bike for supply voltage is not accurate. The voltage supplied to the TPS by the computer is very stable. Changing the TPS voltage by a few hundredths makes a noticeable difference, imagine how bad it would run if the computer supplied voltage varied as much as he claims. The voltage to the TPS is tightly regulated and very stable, and this makes the computer an excellent voltage supply for setting the TPS. His tool may function as advertised, but it's not necessary to spend that much money to get the job done.

[Ud_Luz]

When I inquired about the "Magic Mod" the response was less than enthusiastic. I'd sure liked to have charged people $150 to fix the lean condition.

[sirthumpalot]

I just watched that guys video, and it bothers me that he is so wrong and intentionally misleading about a couple of things.  This is the second video of his that supplies wrong information for the purpose of pumping his own services or products.  There's nothing wrong with pumping your own products, just don't give untrue information to do it. 

 

Number one is his assertion that the bike supplied voltage to the TPS isn't stable or good for setting the TPS.  This is just not true.  Check out my picture below of the bike supplied voltage, measured using my TPS tool to connect my meter (you can measure yours too if you have the tool, make sure your battery isn't dead first).  Perfect 5.00V, It doesn't get more perfect than that.  And when I started the bike it didn't change.  The voltage supplied by the computer to the TPS HAS to be very stable and accurate or the bike wouldn't ever run right.  We know that changing the voltage a few hundredths of a volt makes a noticeable difference... now jjust imagine if the voltage to the TPS changed as much as he claims while you're riding.  The bike would run horrible.  Anyway, I have some suspicions about his tool and if I can get my hands on one (without having to drop $75) to verify my thoughts then I'll make a video showing it.  I'm sure his tool is useful and will get the job done with some fiddling, it's just not the holy grail of accuracy as he is claiming. 

 

 

[Ud_Luz]

I laughed when I saw that too. Just like the Magic Mod guys, make it so complicated that riders will have somebody else do it or buy something they don't need. The system on our bikes is a dumb system that operates in open loop (except Europe). Of course open loop makes the TPS adjustment a bit more critical since there's no feedback loop.

[FORMA MOTO]

I just watched that guys video, and it bothers me that he is so wrong and intentionally misleading about a couple of things.  This is the second video of his that supplies wrong information for the purpose of pumping his own services or products.  There's nothing wrong with pumping your own products, just don't give untrue information to do it. 

 

Number one is his assertion that the bike supplied voltage to the TPS isn't stable or good for setting the TPS.  This is just not true.  Check out my picture below of the bike supplied voltage, measured using my TPS tool to connect my meter (you can measure yours too if you have the tool, make sure your battery isn't dead first).  Perfect 5.00V, It doesn't get more perfect than that.  And when I started the bike it didn't change.  The voltage supplied by the computer to the TPS HAS to be very stable and accurate or the bike wouldn't ever run right.  We know that changing the voltage a few hundredths of a volt makes a noticeable difference... now jjust imagine if the voltage to the TPS changed as much as he claims while you're riding.  The bike would run horrible.  Anyway, I have some suspicions about his tool and if I can get my hands on one (without having to drop $75) to verify my thoughts then I'll make a video showing it.  I'm sure his tool is useful and will get the job done with some fiddling, it's just not the holy grail of accuracy as he is claiming. 

 

 

📎20140826_075524.jpg

 

 

Um, you can only measure one parameter at a time with that meter. Voltage, Resistance, or Current.

You cannot measure Impeadance (resistance at a known frequency supplied by voltage) with a Digital Multi Meter. 

It does not show resistance and voltage at the same time, so it cannot be accurate.

As soon as you run voltage through resistor, you are still only measuring resistance at 1,000hz, generated by the DMM.  It cannot see the voltage and measure resistance at the same time.

You either have to use an Ocsilloscope, a VTVM or a DMM and a regulated power supply if you want to measure resistance and voltage at the same time.

 

If you have a regulated power supply it will provide 5v regardless of the load, then you measure resistance at 0 hz (DC) and you have a regulated and calibrated measurement.

That is why a DMM is no good for anything other than a one-axis measurement.

That is why you don't use a DMM for measuring impeadance, but for measuing resistance; it's a STATIC measurements (no current, no voltage, no hz)

Now, if that DMM measured IMPEADANCE (those cost about $1,000.00) then you would be right.

 

The box he sells calibrates 5v to the resistance measured, not 5v to the internal frequency generator and resistance of the measuring device.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Kah Ran Nee

[FORMA MOTO]

I laughed when I saw that too. Just like the Magic Mod guys, make it so complicated that riders will have somebody else do it or buy something they don't need. The system on our bikes is a dumb system that operates in open loop (except Europe). Of course open loop makes the TPS adjustment a bit more critical since there's no feedback loop.

 

 

All the Magic Mod was, was a circuit that give you a known impedance curve, so the TPS did not have to be calibrated, but it still worked.

It worked just like a piggy back tuner, only for the TPS voltage only, and it was a fixed setting that 'optomized' the TPS feedback info to his specs.

It worked because it gave you a 'fake' perfectly adjusted TPS.....but the new ECU's won't let you do that anymore...plus KTM said they found evidenced of damaged ECU's....so they warned him to stop doing it or risk legal ramifications.  I suppose if it shorted out against 12v that would be possible, but come on....

 

...all I did was ask....

[FORMA MOTO]

 I see this forum hasn't changed much in two years.

 

Still lots of huge egos, vicious hate, and no effort to get to the truth, unless it supports you agenda of ' I'm in charge here'  BS. 

 

Can't you guys just accept the fact that there are a lot of things you don't understand....and that it's ok to say so?

 

I do, many times a day. 

 

You guys rip BDSB's apart, but you don't call him and talk to him. You don't buy his products and try them. You don't talk to Keihin about mapping, ECU's and throttle bodies. 

 

YOU JUST SPEW HATE.

[sdcfish]

I thought the guy made a lot of sense, and making sure you have an accurate 5v makes perfect sense that you are getting an accurate setting every time.  I can also see how the TPS would need adjustments on occasion due to altitude which I never imagined on an EFI system….so that's interesting.  I ride equally on both low dessert here in California, and very often in the Eastern Sierras at 9000 + ft alt.  I wonder if I can make more power? I guess I need to check out the TPS to find out….but setting it here in Los Angeles vs up in Mammoth Lakes would be different…..so the solution is to have the tool:)

[sirthumpalot]

Um, you can only measure one parameter at a time with that meter. Voltage, Resistance, or Current.

You cannot measure Impeadance (resistance at a known frequency supplied by voltage) with a Digital Multi Meter. 

It does not show resistance and voltage at the same time, so it cannot be accurate.

As soon as you run voltage through resistor, you are still only measuring resistance at 1,000hz, generated by the DMM.  It cannot see the voltage and measure resistance at the same time.

You either have to use an Ocsilloscope, a VTVM or a DMM and a regulated power supply if you want to measure resistance and voltage at the same time.

 

If you have a regulated power supply it will provide 5v regardless of the load, then you measure resistance at 0 hz (DC) and you have a regulated and calibrated measurement.

That is why a DMM is no good for anything other than a one-axis measurement.

That is why you don't use a DMM for measuring impeadance, but for measuing resistance; it's a STATIC measurements (no current, no voltage, no hz)

Now, if that DMM measured IMPEADANCE (those cost about $1,000.00) then you would be right.

 

The box he sells calibrates 5v to the resistance measured, not 5v to the internal frequency generator and resistance of the measuring device.

 

 

Please re-read my post, I believe you missed the point.  The goal here is to measure the voltage returned to the ECU by the TPS in the running configuration, because this is the value the ECU will use to calculate the actual position of the throttle. 

 

The claim was made that the voltage supplied by the bikes ECU is unstable and unsuitable for using as a voltage source, and I showed this is not true.  The voltage supplied by the ECU is in fact regulated, and in my picture above you can see that it is exactly 5.00V with every component in the system connected and operational, exactly as it is when you are riding.  You can't get more ideal than that for a real world measurement.  The input impedance on my DMM is 10Mohm, which is significantly high enough that it won't affect the circuit by any amount measurable with equipment available to most regular people, so connecting the meter won't affect the system by any measurable amount. 

 

So in conclusion, using the bikes ECU supplied voltage to set the TPS is ideal for this case.

 

In regards to his tool, I'm sure it will get the job done, but contrary to his claims it's no more accurate than using a good DMM with the harness.  If anyone is willing to loan me his tool then I will be happy to make a video showing why.  If you want a bench tool to use then his might be great, but if you just want to set your TPS and go ride then it's an unnecessary expense that won't give you any better result than using the harness.

[sirthumpalot]

I thought the guy made a lot of sense, and making sure you have an accurate 5v makes perfect sense that you are getting an accurate setting every time.  I can also see how the TPS would need adjustments on occasion due to altitude which I never imagined on an EFI system….so that's interesting.  I ride equally on both low dessert here in California, and very often in the Eastern Sierras at 9000 + ft alt.  I wonder if I can make more power? I guess I need to check out the TPS to find out….but setting it here in Los Angeles vs up in Mammoth Lakes would be different…..so the solution is to have the tool:)

 

Having an accurate 5V will definitely help, fortunately the bikes ECU gives you an accurate 5V so you don't need an external supply.  There's no harm in using a good external supply, but it's not necessary. 

[FORMA MOTO]

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/hi-torque/mxa_201208_dealer/index.php?startid=86

 

 

http://www.getdata.it/prodotti.php?idprodotto=266&idcategoria=35〈=eng&idfamiglia=1

Edited August 27, 2014 by Kah Ran Nee

[sdcfish]

That GET tool is one sexy looking piece of beauty! Leave it to the Italians!

This has been a great education on the ECU, and would be interesting to know how we can monitor the power source to see how accurate it really is to 5 volts. Also, how much difference would a fraction of voltage change would effect the TPS settings.

All in all this is a great thread! No haters, just information:)

[sirthumpalot]

That GET tool is one sexy looking piece of beauty! Leave it to the Italians!

This has been a great education on the ECU, and would be interesting to know how we can monitor the power source to see how accurate it really is to 5 volts. Also, how much difference would a fraction of voltage change would effect the TPS settings.

All in all this is a great thread! No haters, just information:)

You can, with the TPS harness tool, just put your meter on the other wires. See the picture in my post above. Make sure your battery is charged. Keep in mind that different meters will give slightly different readings for the same voltage, depending on the quality of the meter. Quality of the meter is a whole different conversation, but suffice to say there's a reason some meters are under $10 and others are hundreds more. The inexpensive meters are good enough most of the time, especially in a case like this where being consistent is arguably more important than being accurate. It's less important that you hit a specific voltage, and more important that you are able to get the same reading over and over so you can just bump it up or down a tad until you're happy with the performance.

[Ud_Luz]

Um, you can only measure one parameter at a time with that meter. Voltage, Resistance, or Current.

You cannot measure Impeadance (resistance at a known frequency supplied by voltage) with a Digital Multi Meter. 

It does not show resistance and voltage at the same time, so it cannot be accurate.

As soon as you run voltage through resistor, you are still only measuring resistance at 1,000hz, generated by the DMM.  It cannot see the voltage and measure resistance at the same time.

You either have to use an Ocsilloscope, a VTVM or a DMM and a regulated power supply if you want to measure resistance and voltage at the same time.

 

If you have a regulated power supply it will provide 5v regardless of the load, then you measure resistance at 0 hz (DC) and you have a regulated and calibrated measurement.

That is why a DMM is no good for anything other than a one-axis measurement.

That is why you don't use a DMM for measuring impeadance, but for measuing resistance; it's a STATIC measurements (no current, no voltage, no hz)

Now, if that DMM measured IMPEADANCE (those cost about $1,000.00) then you would be right.

 

The box he sells calibrates 5v to the resistance measured, not 5v to the internal frequency generator and resistance of the measuring device.

Of course carbon resistors such as the TPS have very little if any measurable impedance. Since it's a DC circuit then it's of zero concern anyway.