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Converting KTM to supermoto wheels

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I have a 2006 KTM 450 EXC with MT's on it. great trail bike. Street legally lighted. I have a bug about putting on supermoto wheels, tires and breaks. I have a Zx7R and i'm really interested in testing track times deltas. That said, i'm pretty poor too.

SO i found a set of cheap but very good condition excel rims with Talon Gold Hubs. They came from a Yamaha and i bought them knowing they won't fit, but willing to spend a few hundred to try. Worst case, i learn and do some posts and drink some beer.

Here is where i am at as of Thursday.

Front wheel - the front yamaha wheel is a 20mm axle diameter. as you know my 06 front axle diameter is 26. Fix? i've ordered a KTM 2000-2002 20mm axle from KTM Parts. That should arrive Friday or saturday. I'm hoping that does the trick.

Front Rotor - the supermoto wheels have a 320mm rotor and the kit came with the Brembo front brake (lever, perch, master cylinder, cable and caliper and pads). It's an 6 piston so i want to try to make it work. I tried the yamaha extender bracket and it was off by about 1/4 on the second hole. I tapped a hole and installed but the angle of the caliper on the rotor was weird, so that's not a good fix. I need to determine which bracket to order. Brembo is horrible at putting part numbers on their stuff, so i've sent pictures to Motostrano and hopng they can identify and sell me a bracket.

Rear wheel - i actually suspected the would fit. Most bikes i thought were 20mm axles. but, they are not. the axle tube in the yamaha talon hub is 22mm. So, after some research i've decided to order the parts to build the axle from 22mm to 20mm. I've ordered the axle tube, bearings and seals. They should be here friday.

Rear Rotor - this rear wheels is a 5 inch rim. It's looks awesome if you like fat tires. it takes some wiggling but it goes in eventually. THe issue i have is that the rotor on the talon hub from the yamaha guy is too large by about 1/4 inch to fit in the caliper when the wheels is mounted (mocked up). I tried to swap to my stock trail bike rotor but the bolt pattern doesn't line up. I'll wait to cross this bridge "if" all the above gets resolved.

I'm sure you'll say it was stupid, but i'm curious and could get a set of sweet super moto setup for 700 bucks. Worse case i resell them to a yamah owner.

I'm a financial manufacturing analyst and from experience a company who aims at profit would shy away from making many different billet hubs to save RnD costs. So, i'm hoping they designed to the sweetspot raw hub core and then all the specific bike fitments are accommodated in the axle tubs and spacers.

No information was revealed to tell me this will work and Talon specifically said it won't. I will post pictures and outcomes. Hope to be riding it by late Saturday.

Feedback is welcomed from people who have done this and people who want to do this.

I was about $1500 all in, including taxes and shipping, for everything required for complete swap over including tires from Warp9.

have a nice dave

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update to report.  Turns out, despite Talon dealer saying it can't be done, it can be done.  

 

Front fix - utilized a 20mm older KTM axle and it went in and on without a hitch.  

 

rear wheel mount - fix was call Talon and tell them i damaged the axle tube (in the yamaha was 22mm ID) which on my KTM was 20mm ID.  Tube was 32 bucks.  I ordered new spacers and bearings at the same time which was another 60 bucks. I spent more in shipping than in parts.  The pieces went together like they were hand in glove.  

 

So don't let Talon tell you their hubs from bike brand to bike brand are not interchangeable.  If you're willing to spend $150 or so to get the right axle tube, or find the right size axle, it can be done.  Happy to report and i hope the helps someone win the future.

 

 

Seperately - fitting this 5 inch wide wheel on my KTM swing arm is not easy.  very, very wide.  Looks like i won't be able to run the chain guard.  advice about running 5 inch wide wheels is welcomed.

 

THx.

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on mine I had to remove the chain guide and then put it back on to use it. Left one of the bolts out so it wouldn't hit the wheel. There is also a upper guide made for the offraod racing SM bikes that will keep the chain from hitting the tire as much. I think the best is to use a thinner rear wheel to avoid all this.

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I have built a few SM Wheelsets for late model KTMs...

I laced a 4.5x17 Excel Takasago on the rear and a 3.5x17 on the front.  

I was able to fit a 160/60/17 Michelin Pilot rear tire and still (just barely) clear the chain as long as the rim was absolutely centered in the swing arm. 

A 150 series rear tire would be a more logical choice for a bit more clearance.

For the front, I was able to get a 110/60/17 Michelin Pilot to fit between the fork guards (just barely) again, as long as the rim was well centered in the forks.  

Absolute max width for a front KTM (post 2008) is a 120/60/17, but you will need to cut some holes in the inside of the fork guards to provide clearance.

 

The wider the tires, the more gymnastic installing and removing the wheels...

 

And just a word of caution on swapping hubs between bikes...

OEM hub widths vary slightly requiring custom spacers to perfectly align the chain and sprockets, while at the same time, keeping the brake rotor from dragging on the inner faces of the brake caliper. Aftermarket hubs are a bit more consistent in width but that consistency may require the hub manufacturer's spacers (not the OEM ones) to be used to provide the correct alignment. Rears are usually more challenging than fronts, because you have to align both sprocket and rotor, while fronts only have to deal with the brake rotor alignment.

 

The 2013 Honda CRF450R rear hub is a great example of induced incompatibility.  The new generation hub is 6mm wider and the 3mm extra offset on the sprocket side provides a bit more chain to mudflap and chain to wide tire knobs clearance... But the down side is the 3mm offset messes up the chain alignment if you try to use the older generation wheels. Since the rear brake caliper "floats" side to side, the rear caliper can compensate for the additional 3mm offset toward the right side of the swingarm.

 

Cheers!

Edited by Grinstead_77G

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I just got my wallet out and ordered a KTM set...  A week later I was riding.  ~ shrug ~ 

...of course it came with a cost and I didn't learn anything by simply buying them, but it's either time, or money, you have one, or the other, but never both simultaneously. 

What I'd really like to do is make it so I can fit them on my CRFx as well. 

Edited by X-Racer

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appreciate the help on this.  bike is running well and the 5 inch rear fits. as people reported, you just have to do some gymnastics getting it in place.  Much different than slide on and slide off with a motox wheel and tire.  

 

i enjoyed the challenge. just got a bill for the IRS that wipes out all my savings versus buying new.  So, it's good i saved a few bucks.

 

close of report.  PM me if you ever need advice on this topic.

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