"Dead" suspension

Have run across this term a couple times lately and wondering what in the setup causes this. It really is the best way to label the feel of my susp. Whack whack whack thud thud thud pound pound pound. The only difference is the speed of hitting the obstacle and its size. Never feels like it actually absorbs anything.  I am still looking for a active but controlled, plush feel that is linear up to light bottoming. What is the difference in the valving setups? I'm missing something when I communicate with my tuner, he is a great guy but we are just not on the same page. maybe its this "dead feel" philosophy.  Thanks. 

Dead is normally heavy in rebound

I've felt forks that feel dead when u push on them, but work well once in use, maybe forks with low bleed , not nesserserialy overly stiff stacks, but maybe forks with a bleed stack and clamped mv.

Dead=heavy rebound with responsive compression. The opposite I call a reactive setup. To me that is very responsive to bumps and transitions and tend to rebound quick to compression stroke.

Click up to some fast int or beyond in terms of speed, and watch it come alive.

Edited by GDI70

Click up to some fast int or beyond in terms of speed, and watch it come alive.

Are you saying ride faster in int terrain? I would never say I was fast but that is what I really have problems with now due to the susp action. I have lost the "feel" I once had and now don't trust the bike. In third gear and up trails I really suffer, not feeling in control, just holding on and hoping. An extra dose of fork comp helped with the balance problem I had, this weekend I will try that and less rebound front and rear. Hopefully that will free up the action. Thanks again to everyone.

It seems you've had a problem for quite awhile with the suspension on this bike.  I know you really like the bike and want to keep it.  It also seems that you want to take your suspension to someone to make modifications instead of doing it yourself.  In this situation, the ability to communicate with the person doing the work is incredibly important. 

 

Before your current revalve, what were the problems you were having and what did you tell your tuner?

Edited by kan3

The dead suspension favors different riding styles. Modded motors and riders that slam into ruts/berms. They also want the bike to settle in corners.

Other not as fast mx riders like the bikes to not pogo if they don't fully clear jumps. Like anything its individual preference. Some of my pros are polar opposites when it comes to the type of feel they want bike to have.

Edited by GDI70

It seems you've had a problem for quite awhile with the suspension on this bike.  I know you really like the bike and want to keep it.  It also seems that you want to take your suspension to someone to make modifications instead of doing it yourself.  In this situation, the ability to communication with the person doing the work is incredibly important. 

 

Before your current revalve, what were the problems you were having and what did you tell your tuner?

Thanks, I appreciate your interest. Original desire was to make MX susp more compliant for woods use ESPECIALLY concerning roots and similar choppy stuff. Want plush with a linear progression to controlled occasional bottoming.  Gave the tuners very explicit info concerning height, weight, rider class(honest), terrain, etc. Several discussions on the phone along with detailed info in shipping box. More than one told me I gave better info and feedback than they had ever gotten. The original revalve made things worse and nothing since has honestly made a difference. Several combinations of springs(both ends) and oil level. I am using the EXACT same trails for testing after each revalve/adjustment so that remains a constant. I either have wallowing or brutal stiff. One tuner got the HSC root and square edge stuff better but the bike was unrideable scary above second gear. I know many are sick of reading this stuff, don't blame them. Just can't give up, but I'm getting close. If the rumors of Yamaha's new WR are true that will probably put me over the edge.    

It may have been awhile but how do you think the stock suspension worked compared to what you have now?  Also, do you do bracketing to zero it on the best clicker setting and do you give that information to the tuner? 

Yes, multiple times. Stock(carefully modded) was as good or better than all revalves. Not ONE alteration has had a positive effect on HSC problems inherent with mx bike used in woods setting without creating a full wallow condition. I'm either wallowing or rigid on the quick hit stuff that beats you up. Have made a commitment to my wife and myself that this weekend is make or break. Sticking to it this time.

Have you tried a two stage compression stack? My 250x is still too harsh on quick hits. I'll be diving in soon to remove some face shims, place a crossover, and remove one face shim off the comp mid valve which will also give it more bleed. I'll report back.  This suspension stuff is just so personal.

Edited by motrock93b

Don't know the specifics of the internals but have worked with some very knowledgeable tuners. All but one has worked hard to help. He was an ISIS terrorist!  Have never requested a penny refund, all(but one) did their best and earned their keep as far as I am concerned. For some reason we just have not had success. As some have suggested, I am beginning to think the 2nd stage al frame may be the limiting factor.

Edited by YHGEORGE

http://www.n10zvalves.com/ i would have a word with Mr. Russell and see if has some prospective answers for you regarding the hsc adjuster/problems.

I have a set of n10z valves on the way to me, for mx use, out of interest more than anything at the moment. I can provide no feedback for you, and there seems to be little available, which is why i took the punt just to give it a go myself.

http://www.n10zvalves.com/ i would have a word with Mr. Russell and see if has some prospective answers for you regarding the hsc adjuster/problems.

I have a set of n10z valves on the way to me, for mx use, out of interest more than anything at the moment. I can provide no feedback for you, and there seems to be little available, which is why i took the punt just to give it a go myself.

Yep. Those guys are beyond secretive concerning their stuff. Marketing is not their forte!

I have had lengthy conversation with Martin Franzle over the past few months about these units (he is in Austria and one of the guys behind n10z) and, though i dont quite understand the exact nature of these units, what feedback i have had (by searching out users and messaging them) and research i have done, has all been positive, no, it isnt the magic carpet we all want, but it stands up to its claims it appears by offering a suspension system with less limitation, more scope of adjustment and working 'area', suspension can be firm but plush, and take stuttery stuff whilst offering chassia control.

I will find out myself over the winter.

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