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THE KYB SSS Fork Offroad Revalve


C-P

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Since there's a few of us floating around trying to dial in SSS forks for offroad, thought I would start a new thread.  Feel free to post up your specs, what its doing, what you're doing, hopefully together we can figure out the ultimate setup! 

 

My 2003 YZ295 with 07 YZ250F forks.  210 lb back of pack B racer.

 

Base Valve:

 

32.12 (X8)

20.12 (from rebound)

32.12 (X5)

30.12

28.12

26.12

24.12

22.12

20.12

18.12

15.12

14.25

14.25

20x1.6 washer X2

11.25

 

 

 

Mid Valve:

 

20.12 (X2)

18.12

16.12

14.12

11.30 (x2)

17.30 (x2)

.45mm float

 

Rebound

 

20.12 (x3)

13.12

18.12

16.12

14.12

10.25 (X2)

16x1.5 washer

 

.47 fork springs, 1.7 ICS spring, 320cc outer chamber Maxima 5WT 

 

They're pretty nice and plush for the trail, they soak up little stuff well, but the races are a different story - - chopped up, beat up, G-out, braking and acceleration junk everywhere by the end of the race.  I'm using up all the stroke all the time..think this setup would be great if I was about 20-30 llbs lighter.  My current plan is to beef up the midvalve a bit. 

 

My shock is a FC offroad revalve, gonna dive into that soon to see what they actually did. 

 

 

 

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From Dadee:

 

I installed KYB SSS carts on my 2013 KTM 250sx and got amazing results after about 4 revalves.

I'm 165-170 lbs, and I ride a lot of badlands. Lots of aggressive hill climbs, larger bumps from sagebrush and yucca plants, sandstone rocks all about. I do some natural jumps, step ups, and drop offs. I have yet to try my setup in the mountains, and probably will not be able to until next summer.

 

Fork springs: .42

Clickers are about 10-8 out from full in. I can checkicon1.png next time im around my bike if needed.

330cc of Maxima 5wt fork fluid

Pistons are NOT drilled. Talked to suspension tuners and that takes away a function of the fork that makes these so unique according to them.

 

Base Valve:

Piston
32x.11  (x6)

20x.10

30x.10

28x.11

26x.11

24x.10
24x.11

22x.11

20x.10

20x.11

18x.11

16x.25

14x.30

 

Bleed stack reversed

 

 

Mid Valve:

Nut            Rebound

Washer

10x.25

12x.11

14x.11

16x.11

18x.11

13x.11

20x.11  (x2)

Piston

20x.11  (x2)  Comp
18x.11          Float=.45mm

16x.11

14x.11

12x.15

11x.30  (x2)

17x.30  (x2)

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CP's simulation.  File names have description.  I got the stacks from your previous post.  I did not cross check them to the stacks you listed above.  Please double check everything.   If you want me to run another stack, please list it.

 

EDIT: THERE IS A MISTAKE IN THIS SIMULATION.  CP's MV float is 0.30, not 0.5 as simulated here.  See below for a rerun.

 

EDIT EDIT: CP says his float was actually 0.45, so this simulation at 0.5 is close.   However, he says below this wasn't his actual shim stack.  I'm leaving it as is for now.   The screen shots show what I ran.

 

CP-MV-Params.jpg

 

CP-MV-Stack.jpg

 

CP-MV-Curve.jpg

 

CP-BV-Params.jpg

 

CP-BV-Stack.jpg

 

CP-BV-Curve.jpg

 

CP-parameters.jpg

 

CP-combined.jpg

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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Dadee's simulation.  File names have description.  I got the stacks from your previous post.  I did not cross check them to the stacks you listed above.  I used CP's ICS data.  I estimated your spring to be a 1.8 and decreased the turns a bit.  Please double check everything.   If you want me to run another stack, please list it.

 

Dadee-MV-Params.jpg

 

Dadee-MV-Stack.jpg

 

Dadee-MV-Curve.jpg

 

Dadee-BV-Params.jpg

 

Dadee-BV-Stack.jpg

 

Dadee-BV-Curve.jpg

 

Dadee-parameters.jpg

 

Dadee-combined.jpg

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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What is interesting to me is that the stacks in both of these bikes have very similar combined damping curves and yet CP says his has issues and Dadee says his floats over everything.   Time to consider spring rates, bike weight and rider weight ?   Or is something else at play ?

 

Guys, what do you weigh, what do your bikes weigh (with fuel) and what springs are you running in your forks ?

 

CP, do your forks have a bleed stack ?  Dadee, you removed (reversed) your bleed stack, right ?

 

One clear difference is the midvalve float.   Dadee is running 0.45mm, CP is running 0.30mm 0.45mm.  I wonder if this changes the fork's dynamics, even if the steady state is the same ?

 

Dadee-combined.jpg

 

CP-combined.jpg

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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Thanks again for the help, getting close!  The comp adjuster shims don't quite match what I have, think we're missing  a few 32s after the crossover, and it looks like a there's an extra 20 in the stack?  At the end of the day, it all looks fairly progressive, the biggest change comes from the X-over.   

 

Now that I found I've blown out a cart rod seal, all bets are off till I get forks back to normal...

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What is interesting to me is that the stacks in both of these bikes have very similar combined damping curves and yet CP says his has issues and Dadee says his floats over everything.   Time to consider spring rates, bike weight and rider weight ?   Or is something else at play ?

 

Guys, what do you weigh, what do your bikes weigh (with fuel) and what springs are you running in your forks ?

 

CP, do your forks have a bleed stack ?  Dadee, you removed (reversed) your bleed stack, right ?

 

One clear difference is the midvalve float.   Dadee is running 0.45mm, CP is running 0.30mm.  I wonder if this changes the fork's dynamics, even if the steady state is the same ?

 

📎Dadee-combined.jpg

 

📎CP-combined.jpg

I don't have a bleed stack.  I weigh 210 and currently run 47's.  Bikes about 220.  My float with the above setup actually is about .45, but it looks like you had it in at .50 anyway. 

Edited by C-P
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I don't have a bleed stack.  I weigh 210 and currently run 47's.  Bikes about 220.  My float with the above setup actually is about .45

 

Please clarify (list) your shim stacks entirely and I'll rerun them later tonight.  It will be interesting to see how much different they are than Dadees.

 

I think this is going to be a great thread.   One thing I've already learned is that MV floats above 0.4mm don't seem to make much difference.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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Good idea, got tired of watching 10 threads on the subject 👍

 

 

 

I took apart the forks on my TXC that had been done by a shop and here is what they had done. I had been racing on this setup for a couple weeks now with them on my 125. I copied these stacks onto my friends 09? YZ250F and he had the same opinion as I do. He has stock springs and is only like 170-ish I think.

 

 

East coast hare scrambles (the races I've run this year have had good dirt with roots and a minor amount of rock)

.48 springs (I'm 235 without gear)

Mid C-rider with the occasional burst of stupidity. If I pushed my limits and then some, the forks seemed to respond well to it (so a little rough at a slower pace, but came good when going faster)

Typically use all but the last 1-2" of travel. I tend to roll most jumps if they are present at the races.
 
 
Base
32.1 (10)
30.1
28.1
26.1
24.1
22.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.3
11.25 <- this guy seems out of place, but I'm like 90% sure on this being right.
20 x 1.6
10.2
14.1
16.1
18.1
20.1
22.1
 
Mid Comp
20.1
20.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
10.25
11.25
17.3
17.3
Float = 0.6
Collar = 5.3
8.15 under collar
 
Reb (seems to be stock for Husky as I took apart a set of forks that were off a showroom new bike and they are setup the same)
20.1
20.1
20.1
20.1
13.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
12.1
10.25
 
 
I've been running the stock Marzocchis for the last 2 races and they suck haha. I got my hands on another set of the KYBs and will have them on for this weekend's race. 
Edited by gots_a_sol
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Please clarify (list) your shim stacks entirely and I'll rerun them later tonight.  It will be interesting to see how much different they are than Dadees.

 

I think this is going to be a great thread.   One thing I've already learned is that MV floats above 0.4mm don't seem to make much difference.

I'd actually be most curious to see the diffs between these 2 mids:

 

Current:

 

20.12 (X2)

18.12

16.12

14.12

11.30 (x2)

17.30 (x2)

.45mm float

 

Proposed:

 

20.12 (X3)

18.12

16.12

14.12

11.30 (x2)

17.30 (x2)

.30mm float

 

And yes, I would think that float above a certain amount on these forks would have little effect.  Like

 

Thanks again for jumping into all this! 

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Good idea, got tired of watching 10 threads on the subject 👍

 

 

 

I took apart the forks on my TXC that had been done by a shop and here is what they had done. I had been racing on this setup for a couple weeks now with them on my 125. I copied these stacks onto my friends 09? YZ250F and he had the same opinion as I do. He has stock springs and is only like 170-ish I think.

 

 

East coast hare scrambles (the races I've run this year have had good dirt with roots and a minor amount of rock)

.48 springs (I'm 235 without gear)

Mid C-rider with the occasional burst of stupidity. If I pushed my limits and then some, the forks seemed to respond well to it (so a little rough at a slower pace, but came good when going faster)

Typically use all but the last 1-2" of travel. I tend to roll most jumps if they are present at the races.
 
 
Base
32.1 (10)
30.1
28.1
26.1
24.1
22.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.3
11.25 <- this guy seems out of place, but I'm like 90% sure on this being right.
20 x 1.6
10.2
14.1
16.1
18.1
20.1
22.1
 
Mid Comp
20.1
20.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
10.25
11.25
17.3
17.3
 
Float = 0.6
 
Reb (seems to be stock for Husky as I took apart a set of forks that were off a showroom new bike and they are setup the same)
20.1
20.1
20.1
20.1
13.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
12.1
10.25
 
 
I've been running the stock Marzocchis for the last 2 races and they suck haha. I got my hands on another set of the KYBs and will have them on for this weekend's race. 

 

Cool.  That mid stack looks like it was really re-worked.    I helped my buddy revalve his TXC310 and it had this super simple setup:

 

Midvalve:

 

.3 mm float

20.12 (x4)

17.12 (x3)

11.25 (x2)

17.30 (x3)

collar

8.12 (as spacer between collar and top plate)

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Seems as if my MV has a much smoother progression but over all they are very close to each other.

I've tried different crossover setups with 32 diameter shims after the crossover and it did not give the magic carpet feeling I was looking for. I think he harshness was coming from the LS stack hitting the HS stack too soon AND and HS stack not wanting to bend as easily.

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I'd actually be most curious to see the diffs between these 2 mids:

 

Current:

 

20.12 (X2)

18.12

16.12

14.12

11.30 (x2)

17.30 (x2)

.45mm float

 

Proposed:

 

20.12 (X3)

18.12

16.12

14.12

11.30 (x2)

17.30 (x2)

.30mm float

 

And yes, I would think that float above a certain amount on these forks would have little effect.  Like

 

Thanks again for jumping into all this! 

 

Sorry, no baseline function on the MV sheet !   You'll have to compare manually.

 

CP-MV1-Stack.jpg

 

CP-MV1-Curve.jpg

 

CP-MV2-Stack.jpg

 

CP-MV2-Curve.jpg

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Seems as if my MV has a much smoother progression but over all they are very close to each other.

I've tried different crossover setups with 32 diameter shims after the crossover and it did not give the magic carpet feeling I was looking for. I think he harshness was coming from the LS stack hitting the HS stack too soon AND and HS stack not wanting to bend as easily.

 

I experienced the same thing on simulations when revalving my shock.   If I put a face shim after the crossover, it wasn't as smooth.  

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Cool.  That mid stack looks like it was really re-worked.    I helped my buddy revalve his TXC310 and it had this super simple setup:

 

Midvalve:

 

.3 mm float

20.12 (x4)

17.12 (x3)

11.25 (x2)

17.30 (x3)

collar

8.12 (as spacer between collar and top plate)

My cr had the same mid but I measured the float at .17mm. Did you measure the collar on that setup? If it's the normal 5.3mm collar then that float should be .20mm.

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Base
32.1 (10)
30.1
28.1
26.1
24.1
22.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.3
11.25 <- this guy seems out of place, but I'm like 90% sure on this being right.
20 x 1.6
10.2
14.1
16.1
18.1
20.1
22.1
 
Mid Comp
20.1
20.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
10.25
11.25
17.3
17.3
Float = 0.6
Collar = 5.3
8.15 under collar
 

 

sol-MV-Params.jpg

 

sol-MV-Stack.jpg

 

sol-MV-Curve.jpg

 

sol-BV-Params.jpg

 

sol-BV-Stack.jpg

 

sol-BV-Curve.jpg

 

sol-params.jpg

 

sol-combined.jpg

 

Comment: stiffer base damping and less mid than the rest.   Not sure the mid float needs to be that big.  Same thing could be achieved with a 0.3 ?   Does it bottom with the 0.6 ?

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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Cool.  That mid stack looks like it was really re-worked.    I helped my buddy revalve his TXC310 and it had this super simple setup:

 

Midvalve:

 

.3 mm float

20.12 (x4)

17.12 (x3)

11.25 (x2)

17.30 (x3)

collar

8.12 (as spacer between collar and top plate)

 

TXC310 mid looks stiff compared to the others in this thread.

 

TX310-Stack.jpg

 

TX310-Curve.jpg

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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📎sol-MV-Params.jpg

 

📎sol-MV-Stack.jpg

 

📎sol-MV-Curve.jpg

 

📎sol-BV-Params.jpg

 

📎sol-BV-Stack.jpg

 

📎sol-BV-Curve.jpg

 

📎sol-params.jpg

 

📎sol-combined.jpg

 

Comment: stiffer base damping and less mid than the rest.   Not sure the mid float needs to be that big.  Same thing could be achieved with a 0.3 ?   Does it bottom with the 0.6 ?

 

Here is the same MV with 0.3 and 0.45 floats.  It gets way stiffer.

 

Sol-MV-Curve-0.3.jpg

 

Sol-MV-Curve-0.45.jpg

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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Midlife, could you take a screen shot of the base piston, midvalve piston, and ics info? I've got restackor pro also but I keep forgetting to measure the damn parts when I have the forks apart.

 

 

I've got my recently acquired set of forks sitting here and I was thinking about running a tighter float (~.3) and at least minus one face shim also. 

 

So probably about like this with tweaking of the 17.3's to adjust float height.

F=.3

20.1
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
11.25
11.25
17.3
17.3
17.3
 
 
I just got a pile of shims from mx-tech so I can play with this stuff and not have to try and scavenge shims from other forks, so much less frustrating.  👍 
Edited by gots_a_sol
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