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THE KYB SSS Fork Offroad Revalve


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So back on topic....

Everyone is commenting on how incredibly soft my setup is.... But it just works so well. I haven't found anything bad about it (yet). Along with being really smooth, it seems to stay up in the stroke fairly well. Maybe will dive a touch when I'm railing a corner hard in the sand. Otherwise it just plain works. I've also noticed how incredibly well my bike tracks now that I've got front and rear dialed in. I point it in a direction and it goes there.

Anyone else have a similar experience with their setup? I dont ride tracks and can't necessarily compare myself to a speed but I would like to think I'm a fast rider when I want to be. Middle to top C rider maybe? I could be faster i just dont have anything to compare to. I do not ride that fast all the time, mostly just when competing with friends and going from A to B. My bike is geared down. 3 more teeth in the rear and I spend most of my time in 2nd-3rd.

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I think that's what Kyle was referring to earlier- lots of info here, but how does it all apply? We can't ride all these bikes side by side. And the applications are def different - your KYB forks are on a KTM with completely different geometry than whatever they came on. I can say that I'm somewhat influenced by your setup and may try doing something similar with my midvalve. Both your bike and the later YZs seemed to go for a bit more HS taper.

Otherwise, if you really want to test your stuff, race it. It's when you're pushing hard for a couple hours straight that you see what you and your bike are really made of! Im faster than most of the guys that I ride with for fun, but just average in a B race on a good day.

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Midlife, you can add tabs in your restackor worksheet and then reference those tabs for the graphs. That way you can overlay as many as you want.

I did that in my wr shock thread.

I didnt have time to do that when i ran these simulations. My objective was to get data into the thread tk get it kicked off.

Not sure what i will do going forward. It takes more time to copy data and add plots in restackor than it does to run a sim. This is a weakness in the program. Time to make a macro ?

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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I urge all those that are bothered by intruders in thus thread to report every incident to the moderators.

So back on topic....

Everyone is commenting on how incredibly soft my setup is.... But it just works so well. I haven't found anything bad about it (yet). Along with being really smooth, it seems to stay up in the stroke fairly well. Maybe will dive a touch when I'm railing a corner hard in the sand. Otherwise it just plain works. I've also noticed how incredibly well my bike tracks now that I've got front and rear dialed in. I point it in a direction and it goes there.

Anyone else have a similar experience with their setup? I dont ride tracks and can't necessarily compare myself to a speed but I would like to think I'm a fast rider when I want to be. Middle to top C rider maybe? I could be faster i just dont have anything to compare to. I do not ride that fast all the time, mostly just when competing with friends and going from A to B. My bike is geared down. 3 more teeth in the rear and I spend most of my time in 2nd-3rd.

Im inclined to scale up dadee's stack and test it. Or at least use it as a baseline for formulating my own stack. You have to start somewhere. It appears to have been well tested. He appears to ride like i do. Seems like a good starting point. Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy
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I urge all those that are bothered by intruders in thus thread to report every incident to the moderators.

 

Let's be reasonable.  The guy was not profane with his opinion, and it has some level of validity even if you don't agree with it.  There's no need to call in moderators, just keep doing your thing.  He has a right to voice his concern, on the internet where information is stored (and available to all) for all eternity.

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I didnt have time to do that when i ran these simulations. My objective was to get data into the thread tk get it kicked off.

Not sure what i will do going forward. It takes more time to copy data and add plots in restackor than it does to run a sim. This is a weakness in the program. Time to make a macro ?

 

It definitely is a pain.  However, the way the stacks are posted in this thread makes them simply un-comparable, when presumably comparison is the whole point.  Posted as damping force, with no gridlines, no numerical values, and no overlay, it is simply flat out impossible to tell how the curves look relative to one-another, especially at lower shaft speeds.  And that makes this whole exercise sort of... futile?

Edited by Kyle Tarry
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It definitely is a pain. However, the way the stacks are posted in this thread makes them simply un-comparable, when presumably comparison is the whole point. Posted as damping force, with no gridlines, no numerical values, and no overlay, it is simply flat out impossible to tell how the curves look relative to one-another, especially at lower shaft speeds. And that makes this whole exercise sort of... futile?

Ok. I guess my work here is done.

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I made the most progress on tuning my suspension once I quit using restacker. It is a neat tool and definitely helped me understand how to look at stacks and get an idea of how they might behave. I simply spent way too much time changing a shim and looking at the graphs, making another change and looking at the graphs . . .

It wasnt until I started trying radically different setups that I finally honed in on what I was looking for. My best setup is definitely contrary to what most people would consider woods valving.

Edited by H-B-R
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Though it is a fun time waster, I also made the most progress with simply trying different valving setups. I think restackor as a tool to tune works the best on shocks because of the simplicity. There's too much going on in a fork followed by terrain and rider opinion. For forks I generally only use restackor when I don't have all the shims I want to use on hand. I'll use it to make comparable stacks with what's available to me.

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Ok. I guess my work here is done.

Don't give up yet! I got a hot new setup inspired by all the info here. I'll be racing it this weekend - good mix of moto, rock gardens, high speed field and some good flowing trail. I'll post the stacks and results on Monday.

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I think we all know MLCG is hardly the expert. How many here are? Suspension seems to be largely a trial and error art - test test test. I personally like the enthusiasm...he's trying. Feel free to correct anything you believe is wrong...it's good stuff for those of us trying to learn.

 

No, it's most certainly is not a trail and error art. That is for hacks and shade tree mechanics that don't really know what they're doing and just throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks. There's an old saying, "A man's got to know his limitations". I know I don't have the knowledge or experience to rebuild my own suspension, so I took my bike to a local suspension shop. Told them my age, weight, riding style/terrain etc and they got the correct springs and valving etc. No guesswork, no test test test. Checked the sag when I picked up the bike, it was spot on. First ride it was  great except one fly in the ointment, it was kicking up in the rear over root/logs, whoops etc. I went in a few clicks on rebound which helped, then later I called the shop to see what he thought, he said go all the way to 10 out on the rebound and half a turn in on the high speed. Now it's money, no more kicking and it's plush on the little stuff with good bottoming resistance.. exactly how it should be. That kind of knowledge only comes from years of hands-on experience in the real world, not online research and just plugging numbers into restackor.

 

So I'll keep listening to professionals that do it for a living. If you want to listen someone that was a "total noob on suspension" a mere two weeks ago, knock yourself out.

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No, it's most certainly is not a trail and error art. That is for hacks and shade tree mechanics that don't really know what they're doing and just throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks. There's an old saying, "A man's got to know his limitations". I know I don't have the knowledge or experience to rebuild my own suspension, so I took my bike to a local suspension shop. Told them my age, weight, riding style/terrain etc and they got the correct springs and valving etc. No guesswork, no test test test. Checked the sag when I picked up the bike, it was spot on. First ride it was great except one fly in the ointment, it was kicking up in the rear over root/logs, whoops etc. I went in a few clicks on rebound which helped, then later I called the shop to see what he thought, he said go all the way to 10 out on the rebound and half a turn in on the high speed. Now it's money, no more kicking and it's plush on the little stuff with good bottoming resistance.. exactly how it should be. That kind of knowledge only comes from years of hands-on experience in the real world, not online research and just plugging numbers into restackor.

So I'll keep listening to professionals that do it for a living. If you want to listen someone that was a "total noob on suspension" a mere two weeks ago, knock yourself out.

And what did you learn from this? Haha. I have nothing better to do with my time and find it extremely interesting. I did have to test test test and eventually found a setup that works perfect for me. Professional tuners also test test test. They just have very expensive equipment to do so. They also are able to test more suspension than just their own.

I've learned a lot and the knowledge I've learned is more valuable than my perfect setup.

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No, it's most certainly is not a trail and error art. That is for hacks and shade tree mechanics that don't really know what they're doing and just throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks. There's an old saying, "A man's got to know his limitations". I know I don't have the knowledge or experience to rebuild my own suspension, so I took my bike to a local suspension shop. Told them my age, weight, riding style/terrain etc and they got the correct springs and valving etc. No guesswork, no test test test. Checked the sag when I picked up the bike, it was spot on. First ride it was  great except one fly in the ointment, it was kicking up in the rear over root/logs, whoops etc. I went in a few clicks on rebound which helped, then later I called the shop to see what he thought, he said go all the way to 10 out on the rebound and half a turn in on the high speed. Now it's money, no more kicking and it's plush on the little stuff with good bottoming resistance.. exactly how it should be. That kind of knowledge only comes from years of hands-on experience in the real world, not online research and just plugging numbers into restackor.

 

So I'll keep listening to professionals that do it for a living. If you want to listen someone that was a "total noob on suspension" a mere two weeks ago, knock yourself out.

Ah, yeah, sorry dude - but you are funny.  You don't think any test test and retest went into your suspension?  How did the tuner get to be so good?   And at the same time, how many people here have taken apart some big name companies' revalves and thought they were a joke? 

 

Its cool that you had a great experience with a tuner.  I'd start a new thread and talk about how great they are.  Based on your comments above, this thread really isn't for you. 

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Alright guys.

 

On the charts, you can just add gridlines in Excel, really easy stuff.  You're 90% there with the data, it just needs to be presented in a way that makes it useful to everyone in the discussion.

 

On the expertise, it's just something that people need to be cognizant of.  I fully support the "learning by doing" and DIY aspect of this thread.  However, one of these guys probably ought to cross-check the ReStackor results, as we have seen recently how a simple bad input can make the numbers totally useless.  MLCG should also probably revalve a pair of forks and see what works and what doesn't before getting too liberal with the recommendations.  There's definitely no reason it needs to be some "my way or the highway" black-and-white bad attitude thing where you just throw up your hands and walk away because a few people don't agree with you, especially not when some of those people have spent a LOT of their own time being patient with you and helping you get started.

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