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1st gear too high


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hello

 

my ride is a crf 250X from 2006

 

i like to go in deep stuff forests , and a lot of technical stuff

 

from sprocket has 14 tooth , rear , i did not measure it yet

 

seems like  14 is  the lowest numer for a disrt bike this tall , other sprockets with fewer toeeth are only for pitbikes like this par example :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20mm-420-PIT-DIRT-BIKE-12-TOOTH-FRONT-SPROCKET-125cc-140cc-150cc-160cc-PITBIKE-/400581747812?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5d44886464

 

till i visit my bike again (100 miles away from where i live ) and measure the back sprocket too , can anyone tell me if the one in the link can be put on ?

 

 

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They make them for our bikes. I run a 13/53 setup no problem. I did have to order it off line from rockymountainatv (american company) so I don't know what your options are out there. Ebay like motoxvet said will be your best option. 

 

Edit : Twigster may be a good contact to ask, knowledgeable person about these bikes and is in your region and would be able to point you to someone or where to look for a smaller front sprocket.  Maybe he'll chime in here soon. 

Edited by hudsen8
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enduro cross just checked out ebay u.k their are many 13 tooth front sprockets or sprocket kits for the crf ranging from 7.99p to 15 pounds ,they i think would be a better bet than uying something intended for a 12 bhp pit bike dont think i would feel safe with that ..don short change on sprockets as i have seen crank cases and ankles both become chewed up due to cheap or ill fitting parts its hard to tell if the one you looked at fits it looks like it can but the two mounting bolts are perilessly close to the outer edge so i think as you will be running  a heavier chain it will snag als the pitch does not look deep enough so once again go with a renthal or another make that is purpose built for the 250 you will be a lot happier in the long run just check out ebay they send all over the world and once you buy something once they will be happy to help you out again good luck ..

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.... I run a 13/53 setup no problem....

If i may inquire, what type of riding do you do? How aggressively and at what kind of pace do you ride?

-I am interested in trying your chosen sprocket sprocket collection, but have been quite curious as to how it behaves at that ratio.

I already have trouble with first gear being so low, so I mostly use second in all but the tightest of sections...but it would be nice to have second wound up just a lil more, and I'm guessing the sprocket helps with that a lot?

I was scared it would make it want to loop out too easy, though. I hit some serious hills with casket sized rocks that like to toss the bike at every given chance

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If i may inquire, what type of riding do you do? How aggressively and at what kind of pace do you ride?

,

-I am interested in trying your chosen sprocket sprocket collection, but have been quite curious as to how it behaves at that ratio.

I already have trouble with first gear being so low, so I mostly use second in all but the tightest of sections...but it would be nice to have second wound up just a lil more, and I'm guessing the sprocket helps with that a lot?

I was scared it would make it want to loop out too easy, though. I hit some serious hills with casket sized rocks that like to toss the bike at every given chance

 

I do harescramble/enduro style racing. I plan on running the GNCC next year..hopefully. I have two styles I ride, poking around with my buddies and nephew, which is usually spirited or slower riding - typically 1-3 gear 1-5 on top speed dirt road runs  :ride: . On race day with this bike I'm full on. Unless I'm trying to hop over an obstacle at idle speeds <5 I'm never in first, and second lugs really well and I rarely have a stalling issue with the clutch out. During a race I'm typically in the 2-4 gear range. I feel you on 1st gear being so low. At first I tried to lengthen it out by running a 15 front, then dropping the rear to end up with 14/48. It just felt like poo to me. And the bike was terrible. It was suggested I run 13/53 which I thought was going to be too low. Technically it is. 1st is a joke. You essentially turn the bike into a 4 speed. However 2-4 is like a dream to me. I can keep the X wound up in the rpms easily, from dead stop to go in 2 at the bottom of hill is a blast. Only thing 1st is good for is riding from my trailer to the start where you can only run idle speeds, I just let the clutch out and steer, no gas needed. 

 

Like I said I almost never use 1st. The areas I ride vary from gnarly rooty single track at less than 5 mph all the way out to dusty WFO trails, and for me that gearing is just fine. Even in the really tight single track I'm in 2nd feathering the clutch - something I carried over from my days of 2t riding. I have what my friend calls the old cliche of grip and rip riding style, but paired with years of experience that keep me alive during difficult moments and smart line choices before powering up the hill. 

 

As far as behavior of the 13/53, it makes the bike extremely torqueish for a 250 coupled with some of the things I've done to her. If you're not paying attention she'll reach around and bite you in the arse, bad - ask me how I know lol 🤦  With all this I should mention I weigh in at 240ish full on kit ready to go at the start line. I believe this gearing requires a spirited level of riding, because with a crack of the throttle you're off and in mid range rolling out, and what this bike should've came from the factory with. How much torque does it feel like it adds? Dead start races before with launching in 2nd 14/53 I could feel the front end get light and raise up a little. Now with 13/53 I have to dial it back a little or it WILL loop out. I race in B class, and in harescrambles there is not a lot of time to be picky about a line going up a hill, and I think this gearing really helps me out. Even if I do come to a complete stop on a hill where I don't have to jump ship, I can take back off in 2nd. I really suggest you try it. Takes time to get used to at first but after about 30 min you'll feel the bike starting to push you due to the fact it wants to stay up high in the rpms, which is what I like. Cheers, Hudsen. Sorry for the rambling, hop I answered your questions. 

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hudsen8, I'm glad that 13/53 gearing works for you.  Next spring (it's snowing today!), I'll be running 14/54 and looking forward to trying it.  I figured that first would be a throw-away but like you said, it's there so you can use it for some things.  

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I'm a long time XR rider with a X who rides mostly technical single track trails, and I have a Trials bike.  My latest XR is a light weight  XR200 with a Powrol 218 motor, lots of bottom end torque so I geared it up the equivelent of 2 teeth on the countershaft sprocket. 

 

My X, which also has the CCC mods and JD Jetting, is also geared up the equivelent of almost one countershaft tooth via a 4.00R18 rear tire and two less teeth on the rear sprocket.  I like the higher gearing because it softens throttle response in the lower gears and allows a wider range of bike speeds in each gear (less shifting).  2nd gear is my primary trail gear and the throttle/power feel at low speeds is very much like  the XR250Rs that I've owned.   Although we probably won't run to 12,00rpm in 1st or 2nd gear my calculated top speed in those gears is 29 and 39mph. Besides using 1st gear for starting I also use it for difficult and/or low speed work like climbing stream banks, boulder gardens, switchbacks, etc.  For speeds near walking speed you do however need to use the clutch, but it is robust enough for that kind of use.

 

So my suggestion is to try stock gearing for awhile and practice clutch use because if the engine is tuned correctly the bike will work at low speeds. 

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Sounds like I need to put sprockets on my order when I do the chain next month....did you need to change your link count?

 

Yep, I've used the stock length chain

 

 

So my suggestion is to try stock gearing for awhile and practice clutch use because if the engine is tuned correctly the bike will work at low speeds. 

 

Top notch advice - clutching is a very good skill to learn

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  • 1 month later...

I am constantly feathering the clutch on my 230F when riding the tight stuff in 1st gear.  Otherwise, the bike is just too snappy and there is too much engine braking if I just use only the throttle.  If I let off the throttle without pulling in the clutch a bit, the bike wants to launch me over the handlebars.  I have only ridden a 2-stroke once and I did not have this problem--when I would let off the throttle the bike would coast and not slow down abruptly.  My understanding is that 4-strokes have more compression and therefore more engine braking, which leads to more clutch usage as is the case with my 230F.  However, I'm hearing the opposite here.  Can someone explain?  I was taught to always ride with one finger on the clutch and one on the brake and that is what feels the most comfortable to me.  Unfortunately, I may burn through clutches faster with this riding style.  By the way, I just bought a 250X, so I am in the right place.  Question is not bike specific anyhow.

Edited by mossman77
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you could try riding a gear higher when snappy and stay in a higher gear when slowing until most of the deceleration is scrubbed of ,you coiuld try a flywheel weight this can smooth out power delivery and lessen the abruptness ! check the gearing on the 230 can you lose a tooth on th efront sounds like it may behave better with different gearing good luck ..

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I've been avoiding 1st altogether unless I am going extremely slow. Going down a tooth on the front would make 1st even more useless. I would want to go up a tooth on the CS sprocket (or down 4 in the rear) in order to get more speed at lower RPM. That's not really my concern. I'm trying to get clarification as to why people are saying a two stroke needs to he feathered more. Perhaps it is because they are more snappy and require more clutch control so they don't launch off into the woods?

Edited by mossman77
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i think on the older generations of two strokes the power was not so much linear like todays modern bikes so in order to keep them in the meat of the power a generous amount of clutch slipping would have been neccessary .With tuning and and newer technology i think you can get a two stroke to deliver its power over a broader spectrum especially these newer enduro's like the 300's betas ,shercos etc i have both two stroke and 4 stroke and my 2 stroke is very well behaved but i had to change a few things to get it this point ! A 4 stroke is very linear so you can expect to need to slip the clutch less ....

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  • 1 month later...

I am constantly feathering the clutch on my 230F when riding the tight stuff in 1st gear.  Otherwise, the bike is just too snappy and there is too much engine braking if I just use only the throttle.  If I let off the throttle without pulling in the clutch a bit, the bike wants to launch me over the handlebars.  I have only ridden a 2-stroke once and I did not have this problem--when I would let off the throttle the bike would coast and not slow down abruptly.  My understanding is that 4-strokes have more compression and therefore more engine braking, which leads to more clutch usage as is the case with my 230F.  However, I'm hearing the opposite here.  Can someone explain?  I was taught to always ride with one finger on the clutch and one on the brake and that is what feels the most comfortable to me.  Unfortunately, I may burn through clutches faster with this riding style.  By the way, I just bought a 250X, so I am in the right place.  Question is not bike specific anyhow.

I'm seeing a bit of misunderstanding here. You are talking about deceleration through engine breaking, which is something most people don't talk about much aside from the general point that 2 stroke engines generate less engine breaking than 4 stroke engines.Typically, the conversation of clutch usage comes more into play when controlling power output for acceleration.

I know what you mean about being pitched forward when suddenly coming off the throttle. It can be a bit challenging to shift your weight front to back to keep yourself balanced over the bike while dealing with changing terrain and changes in throttle input.

 

Just for the sake of skill building, try riding your 230f in second gear where you normally ride it in first. It's a pretty bottom end happy motor, so use the clutch just enough to not stall out. It may take some effort to keep from revving it out but I suspect your riding will be a lot smoother, quicker, and more efficient that way.

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