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Deliberating a Beta two stroke


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So I'm looking for a two stroke, I want linkage so It's KTM XC and Beta at this point.  Not impressed with Gas Gas quality nor the hefty weight.  Sherco also looks interesting but their availability is awkward this year.

 

 I'm 5'5" so since the 2012 frames on KTMs I've been lowering my suspension an inch.  I'm curious if I can get any real world numbers for a seat height on the two strokes with stock springs.  Can anyone give me a seat height measurement with the bike upright and not on a sidestand at it's lowest point?  Hoping I can get away without lowering on the Beta.

 

Sadly I see very little reviews unlike the KTM which has tons of feedback with which to triangulate on a chosen steed.  None of the tests I've seen compare the handling of the Beta to the KTM models.  Only that the suspension was subpar.  So how is the handling compared to 2012 framed KTM;s?  Is the steering slightly slower, faster?  More stable, more twitchy?  Which has the better planted front end, etc?

 

I want the best bike for me and sorting through bias is always a difficult thing so I'm in need of some unbiased reviews if possible,  What are the things the Beta does better AND worse than the KTMs?

 

Thank you.

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So I'm looking for a two stroke, I want linkage so It's KTM XC and Beta at this point.  Not impressed with Gas Gas quality nor the hefty weight.  Sherco also looks interesting but their availability is awkward this year.

 

 I'm 5'5" so since the 2012 frames on KTMs I've been lowering my suspension an inch.  I'm curious if I can get any real world numbers for a seat height on the two strokes with stock springs.  Can anyone give me a seat height measurement with the bike upright and not on a sidestand at it's lowest point?  Hoping I can get away without lowering on the Beta.

 

Sadly I see very little reviews unlike the KTM which has tons of feedback with which to triangulate on a chosen steed.  None of the tests I've seen compare the handling of the Beta to the KTM models.  Only that the suspension was subpar.  So how is the handling compared to 2012 framed KTM;s?  Is the steering slightly slower, faster?  More stable, more twitchy?  Which has the better planted front end, etc?

 

I want the best bike for me and sorting through bias is always a difficult thing so I'm in need of some unbiased reviews if possible,  What are the things the Beta does better AND worse than the KTMs?

 

Thank you.

You are in luck.. looks like the bike for you is coming out in a few months..

 

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Never been interested in the de-tuned versions of the Freerides by KTM or that offering of Beta.  I just desire a lower seat height, not the neutered versions with lower spec hardware, detuned motors, and tiny tanks.  Not denying they are interesting products just not what I want. 

 

Thanks though.

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If looking for something that can work "easily" for a person that is inseam challenged. The Beta IS your best choice, period....

Yes you can spend money to take away your suspension travel and decrease the seat height, which of course takes away the ability of the bike to work the way it was designed. 

 

I worked with a top suspension tuner to decrease my old CRF450 suspension. Yes it worked, but it was a total compromise, one I would not do again for myself. I ended up changing the suspension back to full travel and had a custom seat made for it... And dealt with it. 

 

That's why a bought the Beta 450RS, The Beta has one of the lowest stock seat heights of any capable off road bike made today. I dealt with the real 36" seat with my 31" inseam, until SeatConcepts made a 1" lower seat, now I'm VERY happy. Even in "paddling" in tight singletrack duties the Beta instills total confidence for me. 

 

I've ridden quite a few KTM's and while nice bikes, they're made for a rider with a 33-36" inseam. When KTM says 36.8" seat height, they meant without air in the tires, or so I've measured, lol!

 

Remember once setting the suspension properly in the sag for "anyone" on any bike and for your weight, the Beta will give you the best chance of enjoying your new ride...

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For comparison I had an 06 KTM XC 300. I now have a 300RR-2014. Much lower seat height and the motor is way smoother with very very little vibes. Steers better too. Very nice bike and for the price and the reliable electric start I would buy it over the KTM everytime.

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Never been interested in the de-tuned versions of the Freerides by KTM or that offering of Beta.  I just desire a lower seat height, not the neutered versions with lower spec hardware, detuned motors, and tiny tanks.  Not denying they are interesting products just not what I want. 

 

Thanks though.

Then get a Beta 250 or 300rr . Get the race edtion if the aggressive version is what you want. It's hard to get an unbiased opinion sometimes.. It's hard as most usually stick with one brand or the other. I'll tell you this. I haven't seen anyone locally that has gone from a Beta to a ktm... but I've seen a lot go from a ktm to Beta. Beta's turn.. That's just known and I don't know how the newest ktm's are but the older ones were known to not turn and that's where some triple clamps or some other work was involved. Beta's are lower than anything else from what I can see and you can lower it more if that works for you. I put the x trainer up there mainly for that reason . It's lower than the other Betas.. 35 point something inches.. That's lower than anything similar that I can see without doing mods. As far as detuned versions.. well we don't know a lot of what is going on since it's early.. but from what I can see it looks just like the same 300 motor as the race version .. There's a differen't pipe.. but it's still early. You can go out and get a 300rr regular version or race version 2 stroke enduro Beta too.. but I was just thinking that the seat height might have meant more since you mentioned it. To me I bet the xtrainer out to be easily upgraded with mods to the  motor in the future.. but I'm just speculating. Here's the other thing. The Beta estart is known for working. The ktm estart is known for costing a lot to fix and it not working reliably..at least a couple of years ago. I've heard the newer ktm's have a bigger estart motor so it's an improvement but not verified like Beta.. from what I've seen that is. I like the best ... and I've looked at Beta, husky, gasgas, and sherco has come later in the game.. I just bought a beta 300 and I think it's the best bike.. granted I haven't ridden the newest ktm or the newest gasgas but I've researched well enough so that I'm thoroughly satisfied. I just went riding my Beta 300 rr 15' for a shakedown ride. Here's another thing.. You haven't told us what kind of riding you do.. what level rider you are and what terrain you ride.

Here's part of my first mile or 2 of riding my new 300rr 15' in some local trails yesterday.... I'm more of a trail rider these days.. but it can be a nice mx bike too if you want .

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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Gents - Thanks heaps for the responses 👍 .

 

I'm looking at comparing the Beta to other linkage two strokes ( KTM, Husky (same bike essentially), Sherco)

 

These are the assumptions I am making, let me know if I'm off base anywhere. 

 

-The seat height is an obvious winner in comparison.  Thanks to MotoxGaint for the 36.75" number.  Are you running stock springs on the Beta and just to confirm its a two stroke correct? 454X mentions its lower than his 06 KTM 300, was this from memory or were they next to each other when you found this out?  The stock seat looks like there is not much foam to cut out also leaving me no room there.  Usually I cut out all but a half inch of foam on my KTM seats.  NarkBevins said his seat Concepts lower seat helped a bunch so maybe there is some wiggle room there.  Do you know how much lower it made the seat height Mark?

 

- Electric start is another area the Beta trumps the KTM offerings.  The fact that it runs in the same plane as the crankshaft versus the 90 offset on the KTM is a huuuuge improvement.

 

-Suspension I'm not sold on the Sachs being better than the WP's stock.  Most of what I have read when comparing bikes the Sachs comes up ranked behind the WP stuff.  Now if I could solve it 100% with a revalve that does not bother me.  However that's just impossible without riding one.  I'm willing to purchase the Factory Race model if that's what I need.

 

The problem with the Beta is there is not much long term anecdotal evidence, ride reports etc to form an educated opinion.  My WP stuff was not perfect out of the box but a revalve has made them worthy.  Still not as nice as my Yamaha SSS suspension (also revalved) but a close enough second to swing me over to KTM's with their ride ratio gearbox.

 

The one thing that I really enjoy is the 2012 up frames on the KTM's, they steer wonderfully light and are effortless through the woods in comaprson to earlier model KTM frames.  I'm looking for feedback on how the Beta two strokes turn in comparison to the the late model KTM's.  Front end feel, twitichiness, heavy steering, etc.

 

The motor I understand is a lot smoother and not as punchy in the upper RPM's.  If I lived back in the deserts of southern California this would be a concern and between that and the suspension I would choose the KTM for Southern California.  However i'm now in SouthEast Asia where the trails are a lot tighter and I believe the Beta motor would work fine here.  How is the clutch feel compared to the DDS clutxh on the KTM's?  :lighter heavier?

 

I've been spoiled by the brakes on my late model KTM's for years, how do the Betas compare in regards to power and feel?

 

HDB has shown in the vids the Beta seems well adapted to 1-2 gear boulder hopping and root tangles with its smooth power delivery.  HDB 20% of my terrain is similar, up creeks, scree fields etc..  However the vid above where it was more open in 2-3rd gear which is where 60% of my riding is done.  Flowing single track with drop offs, roots, rocks, loose and solid.  I bottom both ends of my current ride a couple times per day average unless its just a day of gear 1 and 2 punching trails through there I won't bottom.

 

I race enduros and trail ride.  B level rider, 5'5" 165 pound suited up 30 inch inseam.

 

Frustrating for guys like me because there is not that many bikes out there for a lot of feedback.  I'm only interested in a Beta if its better than a KTM for me not because it's different.  I know I can buy a KTM 250 XC have the suspension valved and lowered an inch and it would be fine....aside from the starter, haha.  Just looking to see if the Beta is as competent to swing me over, haha.

 

Again thanks for the feedback everyone.

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I'm 5'6" with an inseam probably close to 30" also. I rode YZ two strokes for most of my 40+ years of riding and finally decided to jump ship as my 7 decades has caught up to me and starting a bike on a side hill or stuck in a steep rock garden by kickstart was getting more difficult with each year. I am like you and did a lot of research in making my decision, however, Beta was just not available to try and I had to make a leap of faith and bought my 14 300RR. I am very happy with my purchase, but to be honest after having KYB SSS forks I am not enamored with the Sachs but confident that they can be made to work much better. This bike works much like my 09 YZ but is smoother and quicker steering and the e-start is magical. In the steep where I would have to be on top of shifts and keep the Yamaha in the sweet spot I now can be lazier and let the bike work for me - it just continues to pull and covers for me when I make a mistake or shift at the wrong time. 

 

Since you ride KTM and are used to them the difference between the two would be difficult for me to address - I have not really liked the handling of the KTM's and so that led me to look for something different. I will have to add that I haven't put any real time on a KTM in the past three years and the local dealer pi$$ed me off so I really did not consider that brand and I am not a 4T rider leaving very little to consider. Hopefully you will a Beta to try out, good luck.

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Gents - Thanks heaps for the responses 👍 .

 

I'm looking at comparing the Beta to other linkage two strokes ( KTM, Husky (same bike essentially), Sherco)

 

These are the assumptions I am making, let me know if I'm off base anywhere. 

 

-The seat height is an obvious winner in comparison.  Thanks to MotoxGaint for the 36.75" number.  Are you running stock springs on the Beta and just to confirm its a two stroke correct? 454X mentions its lower than his 06 KTM 300, was this from memory or were they next to each other when you found this out?  The stock seat looks like there is not much foam to cut out also leaving me no room there.  Usually I cut out all but a half inch of foam on my KTM seats.  NarkBevins said his seat Concepts lower seat helped a bunch so maybe there is some wiggle room there.  Do you know how much lower it made the seat height Mark?

 

- Electric start is another area the Beta trumps the KTM offerings.  The fact that it runs in the same plane as the crankshaft versus the 90 offset on the KTM is a huuuuge improvement.

 

-Suspension I'm not sold on the Sachs being better than the WP's stock.  Most of what I have read when comparing bikes the Sachs comes up ranked behind the WP stuff.  Now if I could solve it 100% with a revalve that does not bother me.  However that's just impossible without riding one.  I'm willing to purchase the Factory Race model if that's what I need.

 

The problem with the Beta is there is not much long term anecdotal evidence, ride reports etc to form an educated opinion.  My WP stuff was not perfect out of the box but a revalve has made them worthy.  Still not as nice as my Yamaha SSS suspension (also revalved) but a close enough second to swing me over to KTM's with their ride ratio gearbox.

 

The one thing that I really enjoy is the 2012 up frames on the KTM's, they steer wonderfully light and are effortless through the woods in comaprson to earlier model KTM frames.  I'm looking for feedback on how the Beta two strokes turn in comparison to the the late model KTM's.  Front end feel, twitichiness, heavy steering, etc.

 

The motor I understand is a lot smoother and not as punchy in the upper RPM's.  If I lived back in the deserts of southern California this would be a concern and between that and the suspension I would choose the KTM for Southern California.  However i'm now in SouthEast Asia where the trails are a lot tighter and I believe the Beta motor would work fine here.  How is the clutch feel compared to the DDS clutxh on the KTM's?  :lighter heavier?

 

I've been spoiled by the brakes on my late model KTM's for years, how do the Betas compare in regards to power and feel?

 

HDB has shown in the vids the Beta seems well adapted to 1-2 gear boulder hopping and root tangles with its smooth power delivery.  HDB 20% of my terrain is similar, up creeks, scree fields etc..  However the vid above where it was more open in 2-3rd gear which is where 60% of my riding is done.  Flowing single track with drop offs, roots, rocks, loose and solid.  I bottom both ends of my current ride a couple times per day average unless its just a day of gear 1 and 2 punching trails through there I won't bottom.

 

I race enduros and trail ride.  B level rider, 5'5" 165 pound suited up 30 inch inseam.

 

Frustrating for guys like me because there is not that many bikes out there for a lot of feedback.  I'm only interested in a Beta if its better than a KTM for me not because it's different.  I know I can buy a KTM 250 XC have the suspension valved and lowered an inch and it would be fine....aside from the starter, haha.  Just looking to see if the Beta is as competent to swing me over, haha.

 

Again thanks for the feedback everyone.

It sounds like you need to gather a larger amount of feedback from a variety of sources regarding Beta and ktm.. from my perspective the comparative dialogue has gone almost all Beta from the guys who have ridden both. You might also check out the other betarider site and any other site where guys have ridden both or have some experience of both. Really I like all the brands ktm and gasgas included.. With even just the estart as a comparison I'd pick Beta.. for height.. Id pick Beta .. for turning I'd pic Beta.. for suspension the sachs works great but if I was picky I'd just revalve.. which I will when it comes service time ..but I'll just wait till break in and adjust first...but I'd do that with ktm and gasgas too. Everyone is different with suspension so that's a given. I'm 225  and 6'1" so it's a different animal for me than you but I see a bunch of guys your size riding this bike too in the trails. Really I keep trying to be objective but it's hard as I now feel that ktm is inferior.. sherco is inferior.. gasgas is inferior to the Beta 2 stroke enduro. I thought of getting a ktm because I figured I could maybe get a better price and because ktm is popular but the more I looked I just couldn't do it. I wanted to go gasgas too..I actually wanted to have an earlier gasgas and put on a retrofit electric start kit on it.. In the end I know it would bother me and I had to just get the best out there and right now the best is the Beta. I could get ktm but it wouldn't turn as well and the estart is the worst of the top three brands. Gasgas would come second because the bike turns better.. estart a little better but still same design as ktm with that big motor hanging out of the left side.. sherco is nice but it's lame that it doesn't have a backup kick starter.. The only game in town is the Beta. The clutch works well. The motor is proven after a couple of years .. The off idle hookup and torque is awesome. .. I don't have any doubt about setting the bike up to go fast.. That's always easy on all the bikes.. with powervalve adjustment etc it's simple. It's the ability to get a bike to do the enduro stuff that is impressive to me. Try putting searches on google and all the sites and see what you come up with. If you go husky or ktm  or gasgas you will still get a good bike but just not as good as this one to me. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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The guys here might hate me for this but for lower seat height without compromise in travel, The KTM with PDS suspension might be your choice. I just got the X-Bushing, low seat, and low profile tire. Keep in mind it will never handle as good as the Beta. You will have to dump money into a suspension revalve and weld the powervalve gear segment pin to prevent motor damage. The other thing to remember is KTM's are a huge money pit. Very needy! 

 

Now that I think of it, I would get the Beta and have the suspension lowered with the linkage plate available.

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Huh?

 

Just my experience. Blown base gaskets, frozen powervalve, broken powervalve gear segment pin, overheating, crappy suspension in stock form etc. I figured I'm qualified to comment since I own one. It's pretty well dialed in now but it has cost me more than any other bike I have ever owned to keep it running and trail worthy. My 300 has been the most disappointing bike I ever swung a leg over. It's what I have so I fixed the poorly engineered stuff and learned to live with it. 

 

The only issues I've had with my Beta are crash damage repair. 

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Just my experience. Blown base gaskets, frozen powervalve, broken powervalve gear segment pin, overheating, crappy suspension in stock form etc. I figured I'm qualified to comment since I own one. It's pretty well dialed in now but it has cost me more than any other bike I have ever owned to keep it running and trail worthy. My 300 has been the most disappointing bike I ever swung a leg over. It's what I have so I fixed the poorly engineered stuff and learned to live with it. 

 

The only issues I've had with my Beta are crash damage repair.

Not trying to start an argument or anything, but if it is the bike that is in your sig. line, then that is a 10 year old bike, a bunch of updates/etc... Not saying that a new beta is crap, I have been invited to test ride one, but the times haven't coincided to try one out. I would like to, but the last thing I need to do is want another bike.... I agree with markbevans about the late model ktms, they are great bikes if you have a long inseam (mine is 34"), but it doesn't dissuade me from wanting to try the betas and the gas gas offerings...
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I am short, my whole reason for a new bike was to make things easier for me, reduced stock seat height and light. I went with the Beta 300RR MY15, and cant ride it enough, agile, powerful, light and I can touch the ground.

 

The Beta seat height is 930mm stock, I had my suspension tuned and set the sag to 110mm, (stock it was 95mm sag) it dropped the seat height by about an inch. 

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Just my experience. Blown base gaskets, frozen powervalve, broken powervalve gear segment pin, overheating, crappy suspension in stock form etc. I figured I'm qualified to comment since I own one. It's pretty well dialed in now but it has cost me more than any other bike I have ever owned to keep it running and trail worthy. My 300 has been the most disappointing bike I ever swung a leg over. It's what I have so I fixed the poorly engineered stuff and learned to live with it. 

 

The only issues I've had with my Beta are crash damage repair.

I've only had 4 of them and apparently not nearly the trouble with all of them combined that you've had. I did weld the pins when I bought them though. Never had an issue with base gaskets or powervalves. The only real issue I had was the e-start on the latest one. I round filed it, unnecessary weight anyway.
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I don't see what's wrong with giving testimony to ktm's or beta that any of have had as long as the year of the bikes are listed.. All bikes have their problems .. some less and some more.. and some bikes don't give problems.. but tell me do the new ktm's turn well? Do the new ktm's have any of the problems of the old ones?.How about Betas and the same questions? how about the starters?. I mean sometimes what goes for some of the old goes for the new... To me that's part of the conversation.. How many have had problems with their brand of bike?.. That's part of the experience .

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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It's all about personal choice and what you expect from a bike. Hell I still have my 05 KTM300 and it's dialed in well. I really wanted to unload it and get a Beta 300. Thankfully my wife suggested something that really works great. I made a side by side list with pluses and negatives. It ended up being a no brainer. I would have got less than 2000 bucks for my KTM in the condition it was in. So I decided to sell my well used Ninja 650R and use that money to fund refurbishing the KTM. I dumped close to 2500 bucks into it. Lowered it with a X-Bushing, low seat and low profile tire. Had the suspension refreshed, full chassis rebuild, new top end and powervalve parts, etc. It came out really good. 

 

For the amount of riding I do and the fact I no longer race, my KTM is the ultimate single track/trail weapon. Not as good as a Beta but sufficient.

 

If you're going to buy a new 2T, then I highly recommend the Beta over the KTM. IMO, the build quality and reliability in stock form is lightyears ahead of KTM.

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