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I use Liqui Moly 10w60 racing 4t both in engine and in the transmission... 

: you don't need any special transmission oil.. 

ATF?.. NO THANKS

also the owners manual says

 

"TRANSMISSION OIL RECOMENDATION"

API classification ( only 4 stroke oil )

10w30

If the oil has moly in it, as the Honda HP4M does, it will not be recommended for wet clutch (trans) applications.  Moly will contaminate the clutch plates causing them to slip. 

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If the oil has moly in it, as the Honda HP4M does, it will not be recommended for wet clutch (trans) applications. Moly will contaminate the clutch plates causing them to slip.

"Liqui Moly" is the branded name. It's yet another oil claiming to be a full-synthetic but in reality it has a bunch of mineral oil in it. It's not a bad oil, but it's not 100% synthetic. Overpriced for what it is, that's for sure.

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"Liqui Moly" is the branded name. It's yet another oil claiming to be a full-synthetic but in reality it has a bunch of mineral oil in it. It's not a bad oil, but it's not 100% synthetic. Overpriced for what it is, that's for sure.

that's right i's the branded name...

i can say  the Racing 4T 10w60 100% fully synthetic with triple ester chain... there is no blend 10w60 or 5w50 or 0w30, 0w40, etc they are fully syntethic, i dont have the study results but i have seen the laboratory test.  

overpriced no... expensive yes..

Edited by MatimotoF1
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that's right i's the branded name...

i can say the Racing 4T 10w60 100% fully synthetic with triple ester chain... there is no blend 10w60 or 5w50 or 0w30, 0w40, etc they are fully syntethic, i dont have the study results but i have seen the laboratory test.

overpriced no... expensive yes..

Go to their website and look up the MSDS for that specific oil. I am certain it used to state "up to 30% mineral oil" or something like that. Perhaps it used to be 100% synthetic base stock but it's not any more. Gotta cut costs, ya' know...

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Go to their website and look up the MSDS for that specific oil. I am certain it used to state "up to 30% mineral oil" or something like that. Perhaps it used to be 100% synthetic base stock but it's not any more. Gotta cut costs, ya' know...

http://www.liqui-moly.com/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/3051%20Motorbike%204T%20Synth%2010W-50%20Offroad%20Race_EN.pdf/$file/3051%20Motorbike%204T%20Synth%2010W-50%20Offroad%20Race_EN.pdf

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Thats a PD sheet, not an MSDS. Also, That's a 10w-50 oil, you stated you were using one of their 10w-60 which all have mineral stock.

That 10w-50 could be a true synthetic, BUT the MSDS for it is ambiguous about its content. For "substance", it states "n.a." where it should list it's majority content, such as "99% synthetic base stock".

http://www.chemical-check.de/clientversion/pdf1/566/3051_0011_10-01-2014_EN.pdf

Edited by Eddie8v
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I use Liqui Moly 10w60 racing 4t both in engine and in the transmission...

: you don't need any special transmission oil..

ATF?.. NO THANKS

also the owners manual says

"TRANSMISSION OIL RECOMENDATION"

API classification ( only 4 stroke oil )

10w30

alright I have yamalube 10w-40 & I have Lucas 10w-40? I've been using these for years when I had my Yamahas two strokes & four strokes but never put it in transmission so these will work?
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Okay so I'm servicing my 2012 crf450 & want to know what's the best tranny lube to put in it? Does it have to be manual transmission fluid or will ATF work too. Little bit of help on this please

Atf is okay

It's designed for the wet clutches in an automatic trans and the gears

It contains detergents

This keep contaminants suspended

So the filters oil system will filter the oil out.

Motor poo without friction modifiers is ok too.

Friction modifiers may cause clutch slip

This oil contains detergents.

Automotive Mtf is for manual transmissions that specify Atf

It's actually better for its intended aplication but not ok for a bike.

It contains friction modifiers since the clutch doesn't run in oil on an automotive manual trans.

This will cause the bikes clutch to slip.

And it contains no detergents, the mt is splash lubircated and does not have a filter this allows the crap to settle to the bottom.

Automotive gear oil (for manual transmissions that don't specify Atf, and for rear ends)

High pressure addatives/friction modifiers that allow the clutch to slip

Non detergent

But good with gears obviously...

DO NOT USE THIS

So what do we want?

Oil that doesn't have friction modifiers.

That won't be frothed by the gears.

That doesn't have detergents to allow material to settle....

Hmm sounds alot like what's sold at the motorcycle shop as motorcycle trans fluid!

That being said.

I run Atf and change it often.

The only undesirable about Atf is that its got detergents,

But that's a plus if you change it often!

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Also people are like durrr:....huh?

"Youd put in 30wt engine oil.... Your crazy

That's too light I use 75w gear oil....."

Well 30w engine oil is thicker than 75w gear oil.

FYI Atf varies between 7at and 12et on the engine oil scale.

Somewhere on tt there's a writeup on the clutch properties on a trials bike with about 2 dozen oils tested. The viscoscity and other information are included as well.

Anyways.

Atf if you change often.

Motorcycle trans fluid If you don't change as often and dont mind a metalic goop coating the bottom of the trans.

Motor oil (no modifiers) if you want the simplicity of one oil and your going to change it often.

viscosity_table_2.jpg

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Thats a PD sheet, not an MSDS. Also, That's a 10w-50 oil, you stated you were using one of their 10w-60 which all have mineral stock.

That 10w-50 could be a true synthetic, BUT the MSDS for it is ambiguous about its content. For "substance", it states "n.a." where it should list it's majority content, such as "99% synthetic base stock".

http://www.chemical-check.de/clientversion/pdf1/566/3051_0011_10-01-2014_EN.pdf

I like this kind of discussion, its the eternal discussion of what oil is best... I trust Liqui Moly for my experience... back in the day  I broke the engine case of a wr400 on an enduro race, I stop the engine in the second lap and found no oil in the engine... I continue riding back to my truck several kilometers... for my surprise I didn't seize the engine... ( NO OIL )... 

 

What do you think of Maxima Oils? 

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Atf is okay

It's designed for the wet clutches in an automatic trans and the gears

It contains detergents

This keep contaminants suspended

So the filters oil system will filter the oil out.

Motor poo without friction modifiers is ok too.

Friction modifiers may cause clutch slip

This oil contains detergents.

Automotive Mtf is for manual transmissions that specify Atf

It's actually better for its intended aplication but not ok for a bike.

It contains friction modifiers since the clutch doesn't run in oil on an automotive manual trans.

This will cause the bikes clutch to slip.

And it contains no detergents, the mt is splash lubircated and does not have a filter this allows the crap to settle to the bottom.

Automotive gear oil (for manual transmissions that don't specify Atf, and for rear ends)

High pressure addatives/friction modifiers that allow the clutch to slip

Non detergent

But good with gears obviously...

DO NOT USE THIS

So what do we want?

Oil that doesn't have friction modifiers.

That won't be frothed by the gears.

That doesn't have detergents to allow material to settle....

Hmm sounds alot like what's sold at the motorcycle shop as motorcycle trans fluid!

That being said.

I run Atf and change it often.

The only undesirable about Atf is that its got detergents,

But that's a plus if you change it often!

thanks man. Appreciate it
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