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2015 260mm brake on older models


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I saw that MOTO STUFF posted a warning not to use older 2004-2014 oversize brake kits on the 2015 bikes.  The reason being, when Honda increased the front rotor from 240mm to 260mm, instead of changing the caliper bracket to place the caliper 10mm further out for the 20mm total increased diameter of the rotor they actually changed the fork lugs instead (the 2015 uses the same part # caliper bracket as previous models).

 

This sucks for 2 reasons:

 

#1, as MOTO STUFF says, you can not use existing oversize rotor/bracket kits on the 2015 bikes.

 

#2, you can not use the 2015 OEM 260mm rotor on the older 2004-2014 bikes.  To do this, you would need a special bracket for a 260mm rotor but most aftermarket rotors are 270 or 280mm.  I am not aware of an aftermarket 260mm rotor or bracket.

 

 

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They went back to an older caliper too.

Braking has 260mm rotors and brackets.

Jason

 

I just put a 2015 front rotor on a set of 2012 forks. I bought a Braking 270mm bracket. Works fine. Actually, I welded up one of the tapped holes and re-drilled and tapped the whole in the correct position. I should have did what Jason said and bought a 260mm Braking bracket, I just screwed up.

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I too have a 270 crf stuff now sitting around doing nothing, would really like to run the 270 if anybody has an easy remedy for this

I'm 99% sure it will clear. It will sill have the braking power of a 260mm rotor as the position of the caliper is fixed. The extra 5mm will just be rotating, wont be part of the actual braking surface. Don't worry, the 260 works just fine

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I'm 99% sure it will clear. It will sill have the braking power of a 260mm rotor as the position of the caliper is fixed. The extra 5mm will just be rotating, wont be part of the actual braking surface. Don't worry, the 260 works just fine

 

Running a 270mm rotor on a setup intended for a 260mm rotor with an extra 5mm of rotor hanging out past the pads does not sound like a good idea.  First thing that comes to mind is decreased braking surface.  Best case scenario, you've reduced/eliminated the purpose of running the 270 in the first place (poor braking performance).  Worst case scenario you might run into a safety compromise.

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If, and I say IF, the 5mm inset on the 270mm rotor allows full pad contact, then there wouldn't be any issues. The brake will still perform better than a 260mm alone, as there is still a larger heat transfer rate with the larger rotor. Only the less rotating surface area of the 270mm vs. 260mm an a slight leverage decrease would be lost.

Going the other way around isn't a good idea, or a 260mm rotor with a 270mm rotor bracket.

Unless you are relocating the pins, which is fine and much easier on a larger bracket, just like Dennis has done.

But again, I say only if the pads make full contact with the rotor surface.

Jason

Edited by Framebreaker
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Running a 270mm rotor on a setup intended for a 260mm rotor with an extra 5mm of rotor hanging out past the pads does not sound like a good idea.  First thing that comes to mind is decreased braking surface.  Best case scenario, you've reduced/eliminated the purpose of running the 270 in the first place (poor braking performance).  Worst case scenario you might run into a safety compromise.

 

first off, there is zero safety concern, if it clears it clears. The question was will it fit, not will it be better. Of course the extra 10mm on paper is better, but I dont notice any difference myself, and I have KTM's too. The 260mm Honda brake is pretty good this year. If you buy a 2015 and you have a front wheel with a 270mm disc, either put the stock 260mm on your wheel, buy another oem rotor or just run your 270mm, its a minor issue. 

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I just put a 2015 front rotor on a set of 2012 forks. I bought a Braking 270mm bracket. Works fine. Actually, I welded up one of the tapped holes and re-drilled and tapped the whole in the correct position. I should have did what Jason said and bought a 260mm Braking bracket, I just screwed up.

Dennis,

Did you have any issues with the 15 front caliper on the 12 forks?

I put 14 SFF's on my 15 after two rides. When I did, my 280mm rotor had didn't feel right with a tiny bit more drag than normal. I didn't spend too much time investigating the cause, couldn't see any obvious issues. So, I grabbed the master cylinder and caliper/bracket off my other bike, which corrected the problem. I never went back to find the problem.

Last week I put the PSF2's back on for some controlled testing and used the 15 brake assembly with the 260mm rotor, just to compare the performance.

The new brakes are pretty good, but it feels like there is some geometry changes with the forks, as the SFF's don't work as well on the '15 as they did on the '13/'14. The bike does seem to handle better with the PSF's, It could just be me, but I need to start measuring some things.

Maybe the axle placement on the lugs are different?

Jason

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Dennis,

Did you have any issues with the 15 front caliper on the 12 forks?

I put 14 SFF's on my 15 after two rides. When I did, my 280mm rotor had didn't feel right with a tiny bit more drag than normal. I didn't spend too much time investigating the cause, couldn't see any obvious issues. So, I grabbed the master cylinder and caliper/bracket off my other bike, which corrected the problem. I never went back to find the problem.

Last week I put the PSF2's back on for some controlled testing and used the 15 brake assembly with the 260mm rotor, just to compare the performance.

The new brakes are pretty good, but it feels like there is some geometry changes with the forks, as the SFF's don't work as well on the '15 as they did on the '13/'14. The bike does seem to handle better with the PSF's, It could just be me, but I need to start measuring some things.

Maybe the axle placement on the lugs are different?

Jason

hey Jason,

 

I rode it once with the PSF2's. It was ok. I then bolted on a fresh set of 2012 Showas, went right on no problem. All I did was use a Braking calipar adapter, 270mm. No issues. We looked at it very closely, did some measuring, no problem. Took it to the track and it worked flawlesly. I did compare the stock calipar bracket to an older one,(2012) and the are identical, even though they do seem to have different part numbers. 

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Yeah, the bracket has been the same since '04 and they went back to the '04 caliper for '15.

I was in a hurry that night as the fork swap was last minute before a local race, on a track I know well. I will figure it out when I put the SFF's back on.

I'm working on some stuff to get rid of the psi spike on the PSF's. If I cannot eliminate it, then they will hit eBay, or they might end up on a '13 I'm selling.

Jason

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first off, there is zero safety concern, if it clears it clears. The question was will it fit, not will it be better. Of course the extra 10mm on paper is better, but I dont notice any difference myself, and I have KTM's too. The 260mm Honda brake is pretty good this year. If you buy a 2015 and you have a front wheel with a 270mm disc, either put the stock 260mm on your wheel, buy another oem rotor or just run your 270mm, its a minor issue. 

 

How do you figure that having less braking surface (you're not using the outer 5mm of the disc) and having the pads contact a further inboard portion of the rotor that was not intended to be a braking surface does not pose a potential safety concern?

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How do you figure that having less braking surface (you're not using the outer 5mm of the disc) and having the pads contact a further inboard portion of the rotor that was not intended to be a braking surface does not pose a potential safety concern?

 

because its a flat surface, thats why. Were are talking about less than .200". And, I bolted it on and spun the wheel looking at it with a fellow engineer. There is plenty of clearance, a lot. 

 

Why don't you tell us what the safety concern is? 

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It's not the outboard clearance he's talking about, that's a "yes" or "no" issue. His concern is that moving the pads 5mm inboard could locate the pads off the designed area for pad rub and into an area with voids, support struts, etc that shouldn't have braking pads and/or forces applied to them.

because its a flat surface, thats why. Were are talking about less than .200". And, I bolted it on and spun the wheel looking at it with a fellow engineer. There is plenty of clearance, a lot.

Why don't you tell us what the safety concern is?

Edited by Eddie8v
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EDIT:  Sorry, quoted Eddie instead of DEGBTI.

 

 

because its a flat surface, thats why. Were are talking about less than .200". And, I bolted it on and spun the wheel looking at it with a fellow engineer. There is plenty of clearance, a lot. 

 

Why don't you tell us what the safety concern is? 

 

 

I just spelled out the safety concern above.  It's not about the clearance of the rotor.  Just because something bolts up and clears does not mean it's a good or safe thing to do.  It's about the fact that you would not get the correct pad alignment on the braking surface of the rotor potentially resulting in decreased braking surface and/or having the pads braking further inboard on the rotor on an area that was not intended to be part of the braking surface.

 

I'm not saying people won't run it and it won't stop the bike.  I'm saying it won't be ideal and could potentially lead to problems.

Edited by FGR01
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It's not the outboard clearance he's talking about, that's a "yes" or "no" issue. His concern is that moving the pads 5mm inboard could locate the pads off the designed area for pad rub and into an area with voids, support struts, etc that shouldn't have braking pads and/or forces applied to them.

 

 

i hear you Eddie, but there are no voids any different then the holes already on the rotor, non issue guys, 5mm, thats it. The pads already squeeze on voids on the rotor, there are holes everywhere, nothing different, again, 5mm

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Called moto stuff today,they have a mount for the (280mm) for 2015 450r not the 270.So if you have a 280 you're set,after you get their mount. They said if you have a 270 no mount, but it could fit the stock 15 setup.Degbti says it fits and the sweep is ok ,I'm in ,or I'll make a mount at my buddies shop.

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Probably because they are using the old style 260mm bracket.

With the original lug offset setup for a 240mm rotor, the 260mm bracket adds 10mm of offset to make room for the 260mm rotor. The '15 lug is offset 10mm for the new stock 260mm rotor. So, add an old 260mm bracket to the new lug offset and you get the same offset a 280mm rotor needs. That would be why they don't have one for a 270mm rotor yet, because the math doesn't workout for any existing parts.

Jason

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