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85 xr600 oil pump not priming


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Hi I just put this ring back together, with a few new bits. I'm just not getting it to prime the oil pump. I did as the manual states and put oil in it on assembly (which runs straight out, should have packed it with petrolium jelly)

I also read on here somewhere to fill the oil filter pocket that put half the remaining oil on top of the head and the remainder in there frame, I've done that.

I have had it running three times, once for 1 min 40, and two between 30-40 seconds. I had the banjo nut completely loose. got nothing. Im very hesitant to just leave it running until it primes and i don't have a air compressor to try putting pressure behind it.

 

It did replace the oring on the orifice thats on the outside of the pump (between pump and side cover) the original oring was loose, mine fitted over firm and was a little thicker, could this be an issue?

 

Any ideas?

 

another thing I found interesting, what exactly holds the gear on the oil pump?

 

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When i did mine I filled the oil pump and rotated the inner gear several times to make sure all the pockets were full to ensure that it was primed.  Also i did the same as you and put 1 liter in the frame and 1 liter in the valve cover to ensure the cam and rockers had lube on start up.  I have read several places as well to take a large syringe and take off the inlet oil line and push oil through it that way to make sure that it has oil after the initial start and does not cavitate.

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remove the dipstick. apply a short burst of compressed air to the hole with the banjo loose to let air pockets escape. replace the dipstick and tighten banjo.  start it and check the banjo for flow. no flow, repeat the above  until you have flow. if this doesnt solve, i would check o-rings and dowels on the oil pump in the case.

good luck 

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When I rebuilt my XL I filled the oil tank then put an electric drill on the end of the oil pump shaft and spun it until it started pumping. Judging by the amount of dirty oil that came out before it began pumping clear a lot gets left behind in the pump and lines when the oil is changed.

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Maybe a bicycle pump with a make-shift rubber adapter or  a tank with a hose? Cant hurt to try, might save a gasket. But I dont know how much air, is too much? I would think less than 10-lbs should do it, but I really dont know. hopefully someone else with experience will answer.

Edited by bork
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I stuffed a bunch of vasolene in mine plus I squirted a bunch of 20w-50 down the head feed tube with an oil can just before starting. It shot oil out easily and I rechecked a couple times the first few minutes. I also had thick assembly lube on most things so that stuff helps seal things good. Did you do anything with that check valve ? could it be jammed up ? can't remember if it could stop the pump from pumping or not.

Edited by jjktmrider
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So being paranoid about wreaking a new pump also not wanting to wake the baby up by running it i drained the oil from the box and pulled the side cover off. Stuck my drill on the pump and oil came out right away. It's not heaps but it's a steady flow. However I can put my thumb over the outlet which goes to the filter and block the flow.

Also I undid the top banjo where it goes into the frame and spun the drill but nothing would come out.

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The pump has 2 sides, one side does nothing but scavenge oil from the bottom of the motor and pumps it up into the tank. It pumps more than the lubing side so it sucks air most of the time and keeps the motor from filling up. The other side of the pump circulates oil throughout the motor. Did you take the screen out on the bottom of the frame downtube? those can get plugged and starve oil. Also when tightening back up if over torqued they can get twisted and will crush the hole. Otherwise it sounds like something isn't right with the pump it should produce 5 or more lbs of pressure. 

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The pump has 2 sides, one side does nothing but scavenge oil from the bottom of the motor and pumps it up into the tank. It pumps more than the lubing side so it sucks air most of the time and keeps the motor from filling up. The other side of the pump circulates oil throughout the motor. Did you take the screen out on the bottom of the frame downtube? those can get plugged and starve oil. Also when tightening back up if over torqued they can get twisted and will crush the hole. Otherwise it sounds like something isn't right with the pump it should produce 5 or more lbs of pressure. 

 

Mostly right.......but the scavenge side of the pump is the side that oils the transmission and returns oil to the resevoir..

 

 

the oil pump on the other side feeds the head and crank and is all about flow.it can show a few pounds of pressure when the oil is cold......but no pressure..or so low it`s unreadable..

 

but sticking your finger over the pump output while spinning the pumps input shaft with a drill will show pressure there.unless there is an airlock...kinked hose from the downtube-engine,or the downtube filter is plugged with disposable paper towel lint or something from a previous rebuild..

 

 

B

Edited by brianhare
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Shouldn't it still build a few lbs if the outlet is capped with finger? on other motors I've put a gauge on the head feed banjo and easily got 4 lbs at just above idle(cold)1.5lbs hot. That motor had cam caps not through the cam feeding so I imagine it needed pressure but I would think they all need to have some pressure unless it just pushes out between every crack and never seals. Then there should be a flow rate to measure on these.

 

 

 

Edit , manual states : pump A 7.9quarts/min      @ 5300rpm

                                   pump B 10.6 quarts/min  @ 5300rpm 

Edited by jjktmrider
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Shouldn't it still build a few lbs if the outlet is capped with finger? on other motors I've put a gauge on the head feed banjo and easily got 4 lbs at just above idle(cold)1.5lbs hot. That motor had cam caps not through the cam feeding so I imagine it needed pressure but I would think they all need to have some pressure unless it just pushes out between every crack and never seals. Then there should be a flow rate to measure on these.

 

 

 

Edit , manual states : pump A 7.9quarts/min      @ 5300rpm

                                   pump B 10.6 quarts/min  @ 5300rpm 

 

 

yup......if you would actually put a pressure guage right at the pump output and blocked if off completely..i bet the pump could develop alot of pressure.......like you are saying your finger over it should develop pressure to if oil is getting to it and not airlocked...........

 

but assembled and running it was found by the guy building an oil pressure switch with light.....that cold it showed a few pounds.......and when running hot he could barely get a pound or better..another guy on ADVrider found the same thing..

 

the reason is.....there is no real rfestriction.the oil flows through the head too fast and the crank too fast so any real pressure is lost .but tons of flow.you need restriction to get any real pressure to show.....kinda like hooking a fire hose to a car oil pump,it throws tons of oil put no real consistant pressure....or at least not high enough to get good readings..

 

 

Now flow is a different story.lots of flow the guy found......he was trying to develop a flow type switch meter..and actually did that,,but the flow type sensor would not work consistant either..so he gave up on it unfortunately..i really hoped he could finallize that mod...some type of oil light would be sweet on these bikes.if someone could come up with a decent flow switch on these bikes and it worked..i`d be in on that.......but it would likely have to be placed right where the plunger is on the oil pump to be accurate.....

 

i actually came up with an idea years ago of threading that plunger hole at the end and threading in a switch that had a long pin out of it.when that plunger would slide over to let oil through it would activate the switch and turn the oil light off......but i`m too lazy to bother so that will never get done🤣

 

 

 

 

B

Edited by brianhare
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I laid the bike over a bit so I could put aroumd 1L of oil in the box with the side cover still off and 1L in the top tube. . Put a drill on the pump and spun until oil came out the top banjo connection.

Put cover on. Splash a little more oil in the head. Kick in the guts and she starts. (First kick)

After about 10 seconds oil came out the top joint again..

Oil pump primed!!

Now I just need some new chain guides and swing arm protector and can ride it

Thanks heaps for taking to time to help me out guys. Very appreciated.

Below are just some pics.

just put the engine in: ready to start her: how I primed the pump: looking pretty with the tank and seat just sitting on.

1420234385672.jpg

1420234408084.jpg

1420234428779.jpg

1420234730184.jpg

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