Tomac and Roczen

[GBowman]

Again, it's not comparing a bike that doesn't work (The Honda with Showa), versus a bike that does. We're talking about "comfort" on already good bikes.

The percentage that the bikes are blamed is WAY out of proportion in my opinion, especially given the relative lack of complexity in an MX bike vs other forms of motorsports. 

I would bet a pretty penny RV would finish VERY high on a revalved bone stock bike,  yes. Frighteningly high. 

I bet a stock bike wouldn't last 20 laps.

[hyper7driver]

I bet a stock bike wouldn't last 20 laps.

 

Shorty has done it.

[MediumDriver]

I bet a stock bike wouldn't last 20 laps.

We should make that bet. I'd take you up on it. Now, maybe someone you know who can get one in the Main could test it for us?

Although, I thought Jimmy ran an essentially stock bike for some outdoors this year... only suspension changed, but I might be wrong there. 

Shorty has done it.

Ah yes, I remember that. There you go. 

[hyper7driver]

Again, it's not comparing a bike that doesn't work (The Honda with Showa), versus a bike that does. We're talking about "comfort" on already good bikes.

The percentage that the bikes are blamed is WAY out of proportion in my opinion, especially given the relative lack of complexity in an MX bike vs other forms of motorsports. 

I would bet a pretty penny RV would finish VERY high on a revalved bone stock bike,  yes. Frighteningly high. 

 

Andrew Short came into,,,,,(2012 I think it was,) without a ride, bought a bike out of his own pocket, jumped in the season with a virtually stock Honda, and rode some of the best races he had up until that point.

[hyper7driver]

Ah yes, I remember that. There you go. 

 

Shorty was not the only one. Peick has done it in the past, among many privateers.

[GBowman]

Andrew Short came into,,,,,(2012 I think it was,) without a ride, bought a bike out of his own pocket, jumped in the season with a virtually stock Honda, and rode some of the best races he had up until that point.

While it was somewhat close to stock, it wasn't a stocker. 

Shorty was not the only one. Peick has done it in the past, among many privateers.

Huge, HUGE difference between stock and production based.

[Chaconne]

While it was somewhat close to stock, it wasn't a stocker. 

Huge, HUGE difference between stock and production based.

I am sure the marketing teams don't highlight that either...

[hyper7driver]

While it was somewhat close to stock, it wasn't a stocker. 

Huge, HUGE difference between stock and production based.

 

What changes were made then? Andrew said it was stock with some suspension adjstments, and typical bars, pegs, and pipe changes. Engine still had almost all production internals it came with off the show room floor.

 

And Peick had starting issues with his bike for a while cause they couldn't afford to replace the stock fuel pump it came with or something, which was beyond need of replacing. Don't see how they could've afforded huge, HUGE upgrades from stock.

Edited January 17, 2015 by hyper7driver

[GBowman]

What changes were made then? Andrew said it was stock with some suspension adjstments, and typical bars, pegs, and pipe changes. Engine still had almost all production internals it came with off the show room floor.

 

And Peick had starting issues with his bike for a while cause they couldn't afford to replace the stock fuel pump it came with or something, which was beyond need of replacing. Don't see how they could've afforded huge, HUGE upgrades from stock.

Andrews bike had all modified suspension,wheels,triple clamps and rear linkage, all the things that break. same with Piecks bikes. 

[mog]

Jamie dobb got a 5th at a world gp on stock suspension many years back , that's when suspension was way behind what we have now

[hyper7driver]

Andrews bike had all modified suspension,wheels,triple clamps and rear linkage, all the things that break. same with Piecks bikes. 

 

Revalving/tuning suspenion, a set of clamps, shock linkage, a pipe, and foot pegs is a huge difference?

[GBowman]

Revalelving/tuning suspenion, a set of clamps, shock linkage, a pipe, and foot pegs is a huge difference?

The original argument was, would a stock bike make it through a race day, I said no, you said yes. Then you used Andrews and Piecks bikes as examples. If you want a bike to make through the day of a pro event, those are the things you change. Simple.

 

A stock bike would have broken wheels, bent pegs and stretched out clamps and linkage. 

 

Yes, to get your bike to make through a pro event, tjose are huge changes, and the wheel set is a must. And if you plan on doing the full season on that stock bike you better have some frames rolling around, the factory teams change them every four races and most guys change them twice. 

[Piney Woods]

The original argument was, would a stock bike make it through a race day, I said no, you said yes. Then you used Andrews and Piecks bikes as examples. If you want a bike to make through the day of a pro event, those are the things you change. Simple.

 

A stock bike would have broken wheels, bent pegs and stretched out clamps and linkage. 

 

Yes, to get your bike to make through a pro event, tjose are huge changes, and the wheel set is a must. And if you plan on doing the full season on that stock bike you better have some frames rolling around, the factory teams change them every four races and most guys change them twice. 

Because of need or just "mechanic paranoia"?

[GBowman]

Becin use of need or just "mechanic paranoia"?

Some would be both,  but wheel sets and pegs are a must. 

 

The frame is a must too, they stretch them out pretty good. 

Edited January 17, 2015 by GBowman

[Bocephus3000]

No...you guys are right...Roczen totally made the right decision....

[babyarmholdingapple]

Eli just hits stuff harder and stays pinned.  It was questionable as to whether he could make this style work on a 450...but clearly he has the bike set up to pull it off now.   

 

Jason Thomas commented on this the other day, saying Eli was the rider he most like to watch.  He noted that Eli just does just crazy stuff.  Hitting jumps harder...going further...OJing all the time, and not slowing down.  He just lands pinned and bounces off stuff. Stuff no one else is doing...or can do without getting exhausted.  That is what JT said, and I have to agree.  Two years ago at Spring Creek...he was 3-4s a lap faster than anyone on a 250.  Heck...he was as fast as RV.  It was nuts...and the way he rode the track was so different than anyone else.  He would OJ...case stuff...and just not slow down.  I think that other riders can not do that, because they get tired.  I love the style...it is just pure aggression and determination.  The down side is sometimes things get out of control.

 

Seen him, agree and as with JS7,  he has the JS7 factor.  

 

(People - Hannah should have had way more titles too)

 

Just as with JS7 in the past and already this year with Eli he's screwed on points, a subject we have concur on.

What gets me this was his first win on a 450.  That earned luck as RC says just never seems to be there for Eli.

RD got a indoor and a outdoor and a stack of wins in 2010, right place and right time.  Eli seems to elude the right place right time

no matter how much talent or strength he has.  As great at this time as he is he has yet to prove any second coming status that is thrown about.

 

Tickle and Bagget have won titles over him.

 

The end of the year will come and K roc will grab a cup, Eli will be thinking about races that got away. 

[hyper7driver]

Because of need or just "mechanic paranoia"?

 

I guess Excel wheels aren't good enough according to Bowman.

 

Fact is aftermarket parts fail under these conditions too. Any type of part can fail under these conditions. But production stuff has been used. Though rare, it does happen. How many riders have pulled off a track with broken brake rotors, spokes, they feel the bike wobble and find a bent wheel, etc. It happens to both stock and aftermarket. I'd bet on aftermarket stuff staying together longer, but it's not to say production parts are impossible. Heck, magazine test riders will thrash a production bike all day long sometimes without failure.