KTM lifespan for a moderate rider

[papacooldown]

Hi,

I have wanted a KTM since I was a young kid but was never able to afford one. I took a decade off from it, but now in my 30's I have gotten back into riding and was thrilled to see how popular they have become.

However when it came time to buy a used bike I passed up on a 2003 450exc in favor of a 2007 Drz400 that I happened to get an awesome deal on. Needless to say, all I find myself doing is trying to make my drz into a ktm - something that will never realistically happen. I dont dislike my DRZ at all, but I do want to gear for tight trails without having to run the bike at 6000rpm to cruise at 55mph. I do want fuel injection. I want a lighter bike. I want more power. I want kick AND electric start. But not if that means the bike will not last me a long time.

Looking back on it 3 months later, the decision to go for the drz was largely based on what I think are generalizations in advice that I was given both online and from friends about KTM, namely that they need to be rebuilt more often and require a drastically higher level of maintenance, and have something like a 100-200 hour limit.

Now I do understand and accept that race engines need more TLC and have a shorter lifespan, but what if they are not ridden like race bikes? How does, say, a ktm 450/500/530/etc hold up for a moderate dual sport rider, doing a little bit of everything excluding mx/racing? Has anyone seen 20-30k+ lifespan on one of these bikes before a rebuild if ridden moderately, or is it just unheard of?

People talk a lot about performance mods, but the way I see it a ktm 450 in stock form is leaps and bounds beyond my modified drz.... so are there aftermarket parts or mods designed to increase the engine's maintenance interval and, more importantly, time between top end replacement?

I do realize that most of what I've heard and read about ktm is probably not based on real experience. Nonetheless it is still what keeps me from buying one. If I could find confidence that owning a ktm doesnt mean a $1500 rebuild every year or two (you better believe I would put 200 hours on a ktm within 1-2 years ?), I would sell my drz and get one tomorrow...

[PTECH]

I've read of 500s going over 300 hours with no issues but thats just what I've read. Maybe look into the 690 enduro R.  The LC4 engine is less maintenance intensive than the 450/500. Not quite as light as a 450/500 but more power than the drz, fuel injected and eletric start but no kick start.  The service schedule on that bikes calls for oil and filter change every 1,000KM and a valve adjust every 10,000KM and thats about it for the engine. 

[Spud786]

I put 40,000 miles on a drz s model .

The bike off the floor, is set up better for the street, its milder and smoother to. The KTM off the floor is very crude (its unbalanced), but the drz has some crudeness also with its lean motor, at say above 60 mph.

Once the ktm is desmogged, and fuel adjusted it totally rips in comparison motor wise over a drz with 3x3 and rejetted, significantly more torque, even with slightly taller gearing than the DRZ.

motor wise, they both have a nakasil bore and forged piston, the KTM has a much stronger valve system, and screens guard the crank and the oil system plus a filter, so the KTM is well covered in that regard.

The ktm has way lower rpm at 80 mph + than the DRZ.

At this point I see no reason a KTM will not do what the cheaper drz will do longevity wise, however the drz will easily do 1500 mile oil changes right off the bat, while the KTM is far harder on the oil or else Id already be doing 1500/2000 mile changes.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Spud786

[papacooldown]

I dont mind closer service intervals, but what is it that makes a ktm harder on the oil than a drz? My first thought is capacity (2q on the drz vs ?? on ktm), but I suspect it is not that simple...

I saw at one point someone selling oversized ktm clutch covers that claimed to increase capacity by 25 pct or something thereabouts.

[Spud786]

I dont mind closer service intervals, but what is it that makes a ktm harder on the oil than a drz? My first thought is capacity (2q on the drz vs ?? on ktm), but I suspect it is not that simple...

less oil and near 20 more horses, its very possible it will abate a lot by 5 or 6 thousand miles. I know my 100 horse sport bike was also tough on oil in the first 6 or 7,000 miles. Not as hard as the ktm though, but definitely harder than the DRZ.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Spud786

[travertt]

What are you looking for???...a dual sport, mostly street, some highway but mostly trails, mostly track....what kind of riding do you do?

 

I too rode a DRZ400 for one season... a very robust and reliable machine...but WAY too heavy and cumbersome....cannot compare to a late model KTM.

 

FYI...my buddies 06 400EXC with over 500 hours....just had its first rebuild.

 

My 2012 350 XCF-W with 140 hours just had its first valve adjustment...both intakes were spot on...both exhaust were just barely out of spec.

 

A lot of what you hear about KTM 4 strokes requiring a lot of maintenance should be taken with a grain of salt.  Those days are, for the most part, behind  us....the new 4 stroke engines are very reliable but do require regular maintenance to achieve that reliability.  IE ....reasonably frequent oil and filter changes and a clean air filter.  If you are not planning to run it hard (like MX) then you will be fine if you have a good maintenance program.

 

As they used to say in the old Fram oil filter commercials...."you can pay me now" (for a premium Fram air filter)...."or you can pay me later" (for an engine rebuild).

 

I would not worry so much about getting an awesome deal....what you want is an awesome bike.  Get something as new as possible....with EFI if its a 4t. 

 

 

[Spud786]

The most promising thing on my ktm is im not seeing any unusual metal,and its not had an oil usage issue at all. I saw more metal spooge on the drz magnet than the ktm. The ktm on the screens and magnet thus far has been outstandingly clean, that gives me a lot of hope on the longevity side of things.

Course I haven't ran the ktm 1500+ miles on a change, and Im only on the 4th oil change in about 1,100 miles. This oil change Im on right now, is going post 500 miles( the longest), Id say I settle somewhere around a 750 or 1000 mile interval, but that's adjustable depending on improvement.

First change at 60 miles was nasty, but no metal in the screen or magnet. I did see some sparkles in the bottom of the oil dump pan after dumping on the first change. I saw a lot of dirty soot looking stuff in the oil dump.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Spud786

[DR.billZ]

I had the original 2000 KTM 520 and just in July replaced it with a 500. The 520 still had lots of life in it. I wouldn't worry much about a bike that was raced, especially harescrambles. MX bikes get revved to death.

[Spud786]

Maybe look into the 690 enduro R.  The LC4 engine is less maintenance intensive than the 450/500.

Ive ridden the 690, and if your looking for a street bike that can run trails, its okay, however if the DRZ is considered Bulky you definitely don't want the 690, even tough it probably does have more power for the street, it comes with definite low rpm fueling issues( it shudders). I didn't really like it at all though, it really didn't feel like a dirtbike much at all. Totally stock(out the door) power to weight ratio to me is about the same 690 verses 500, however handling weight makes a huge difference in function quality, which goes to the 500.

One thing about motarding the DRZ , like if you drop down into a steep hole into a tight turn which immediately heads up hill, the DRZ lacks the oats to really pull out of the hole strongly compared to say a sport bike, but the ktm500 rips out strongly, much more competitive in that regard. Course that's once you get the motor sorted out, for the best bang for the buck.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Spud786

[David37]

If you want a street bike and a adequate dirt bike stay with the DRZ.  If you want a great dirt bike and a adequate street bike buy the KTM.  I've owned 4 KTMs and never experienced any mechanical or reliability problems.  The secret to making an engine last, don't rev it so high you hit the rev limiter every time you ride your bike and the more often you change the oil and filter the longer your engine will last.

Edited February 14, 2015 by David37

[heftdogy]

Depends on what you do more dirt or street . Ktm..more dirt ore anted suzy.more street. I've rode both

[papacooldown]

If you want a street bike and a adequate dirt bike stay with the DRZ. If you want a great dirt bike and a adequate street bike buy the KTM.

Pretty much sums it up...I want a great dirt bike that is adequate on the street. Currently the drz is either an adequate trail bike or an adequate street bike but never both at the same time... for my type of riding at least (technical 4x4 trails, single track, enduro-ish kinda stuff).

Plus it is a bit weird that suzuki hasnt made any major changes to the bike in 15 years but keeps charging more for it. All they need to do is put a 6 speed or wide ratio trans, and perhaps EFI and all of a sudden theres not a huge sense of urgency to switch to another brand. It still wouldnt be a ktm, would be a heavy pig offroad, but way less of a compromise.

[DR.billZ]

It's funny that my employees aren't producing any more yet charge me more....

[Spud786]

. All they need to do is put a 6 speed or wide ratio trans, and perhaps EFI and all of a sudden theres not a huge sense of urgency to switch to another brand. It still wouldnt be a ktm, would be a heavy pig offroad, but way less of a compromise.

I always said if they made a DRZ 450 or 500 with a 6 speed Id buy another, But the KTM motor surpasses all those ideas. I don't dog the DRZ over anything else as far as a trail bike, function, ergo ,or anything else, the DRZ is a very usable bike, much more than I anticipated when I bought it, especially as a street bike.

BTW , the valve checks on the 500 , is really easy, I cant think of a bike that's easier. You don't even need to touch a cam chain or even a cam shaft, replacing shims.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Spud786

[2coldnpagosa]

Find a 525 EXC and know its nearly bullet proof and soooo reliable. I've raced it now I use it as a DS. Its not as comfy (stock) on the highway but it'll transfer me there nicely. Mine is pushing 300 hrs with just valve adjustments. Its gonna see a Timbersled snobike kit on it next season!

[cadman_ks]

Hi,

... Needless to say, all I find myself doing is trying to make my drz into a ktm - something that will never realistically happen. I dont dislike my DRZ at all, but I do want to gear for tight trails without having to run the bike at 6000rpm to cruise at 55mph. I do want fuel injection. I want a lighter bike. I want more power. I want kick AND electric start. But not if that means the bike will not last me a long time.

Looking back on it 3 months later, the decision to go for the drz was largely based on what I think are generalizations in advice that I was given both online and from friends about KTM, namely that they need to be rebuilt more often and require a drastically higher level of maintenance, and have something like a 100-200 hour limit.

...

I do realize that most of what I've heard and read about ktm is probably not based on real experience. Nonetheless it is still what keeps me from buying one. If I could find confidence that owning a ktm doesnt mean a $1500 rebuild every year or two (you better believe I would put 200 hours on a ktm within 1-2 years ?), I would sell my drz and get one tomorrow...

 

 

Pretty much sums it up...I want a great dirt bike that is adequate on the street. Currently the drz is either an adequate trail bike or an adequate street bike but never both at the same time... for my type of riding at least (technical 4x4 trails, single track, enduro-ish kinda stuff).

...

 

Friend, you and I are / were in the same boat.  I too bought a DRZ.  Bullet proof bike.  Good on the road, and for me, mine was OK to good on the dirt.  But, in the end, I found out that I had MORE fun on dirt than I did on the street.  At that point, I needed (wanted) a bike that was more dirt capable, and if that meant sacrificing some street riding capabilities, so be it.  I ended up getting a 500 EXC, for EVERY reason that you stated:  LIGHTER, EFI, dual start, dirt bike in street clothes.  Lighter weight and EFI were my driving factors at the end of the day.  I got tired of picking up the Dizzer.

 

You've said a lot of things in this thread, and I've quoted the major pieces.  You already KNOW which is the better bike for what you want to do.

But do not, and I repeat do NOT continue to follow this logic:

 

...

All they need to do is put a 6 speed or wide ratio trans, and perhaps EFI and all of a sudden theres not a huge sense of urgency to switch to another brand. It still wouldnt be a ktm, would be a heavy pig offroad, but way less of a compromise.

A DRZ will NEVER EVER NEVER be a 500 EXC / XCW.  Will not happen.  They could fuel inject it.  They could put a 6 speed in.  It still would NOT be equal to the KTM, or even remotely close.

 

As you noted, the DRZ IS A PIG.  And picking that pig up sucks!  But more importantly, pigs don't fly.  The DRZ does NOT make a GREAT dirt bike.  It's because of the weight, and the suspension.  They are NOT dirt bike class / grade components, and just don't perform great in the dirt.  Can you trick out the DRZ suspension?  Sure.  At the end do have something that's as good as the KTM.  NO.

 

When I bought my DRZ, I had a bunch of buddies that were counseling me on which way to go.  In the end, I personally convinced THEM that I needed the DRZ.  My original reasoning was that I didn't want to spend a lot on a bike that I may not enjoy riding, since I had never done any real dirt bike riding.  After getting it, and after finding out that I really enjoyed dirt bike riding, it didn't take me long to realize that I did NOT enjoy the weight of the DRZ, and the power on the DRZ.  Don't get me wrong.  The DRZ has power, but it doesn't make power like the 500 does.  They are just not comparable.  

 

Notice that I didn't mention anything about reliability / longevity.  If you're willing to keep up on the non-invasive maintenance:  oil changes, air filters cleanings, and valves, this bike will last you a long, LONG time.  Will it last DRZ miles?  Who knows?  But, it's probably safe to say that it won't make it that far.  But I can guarantee you, that when the day comes that you have to do maintenance on the motor on the KTM, you will be laughing all the way to the bank, because all you will have are memories of twisting the throttle and the smile that brought to your face.  When that day comes, you'll look back on all the times that you picked up the KTM off the ground, and remember how nice it was to pick up 50 less pounds every time that happened.

 

In the end, your comment about compromise is spot on.  In order to own a KTM, you may need to be willing to make some compromises, like a little more maintenance.  However, there a lot more comporomises that need to be made if you're going to own a DRZ, and what you REALLY WANT Is a dirt bike.

 

For me, in the end, I finally came to terms with my inner self, and I realized that I needed a bike that was more dirt built to be more dirt rideable.  You're there.  If you truly want a dirt bike that goes on the street, a KTM will fit the bill.  As long as you continue to make the DRZ be a KTM, you will also be disappointed...

 

CADman_KS

Edited February 14, 2015 by cadman_ks

[papacooldown]

Can you trick out the DRZ suspension? Sure. At the end do have something that's as good as the KTM. NO.

Funny you mention suspension...last night I was in the middle of an attempt to trick out the drz suspension. Yours and all of these posts have made it clear that this will be my last drz upgrade.

Did I mention the previous owner somehow managed to strip half the threads on the rear shock? Took me 2 hours to get the old spring off. :/

So, im pretty sold on selling my drz its just a question of when. I could probably keep the pig for a couple years while I save for a new 500exc, or I could likely sell it right now and buy a used ktm (probably earlier than 2005 from the looks of prices on CL). Someone mentioned that ktm has worked the issues out in recent models, so are there particular bikes/years of the 450/525/530 to avoid entirely, or things to watch out for? I think all I need to fill the gap is a 6 speed and less weight. More power is a given. I can wait on the rest for when I get my new 500...

[RollinDirty]

When I sold my DRZ and got on my 500exc it was like stepping off a Mack truck and get on a jet fighter....no comparison.

[obgod3]

Just in general I have a 13 year old KTM that gets ridden regularly! no issues and a get bike. I know lots of people with very high hours and miles on their KTM's. Bikes are typically easy, maintain them and change out worn parts and they last forever.

[cadman_ks]

When I sold my DRZ and got on my 500exc it was like stepping off a Mack truck and get on a jet fighter....no comparison.

 

Same experience here.

 

With that being said, I should have made this clear in my last post, and I want to clarify this:  I AM NOT A DRZ HATER!  

 

It is still a good, solid, all-around bike.  However, it is not the best "dirt" bike, and if that's how you plan to ride it, be aware that it's going to be a LOT of work.  Work getting it to that point, and work riding it.

 

I actually wouldn't mind own a DRZ in SM setup.  Maybe sometime in the future...