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BROKE it again! FAK! learn from my mistake

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so for all those who remember me or followed my last rebuild thread (almost exactly a year ago), im at it again. and will once again be posting my progress and well as hopefully take more photos along the way to help others. 

 

To recap, in the fall of 2013, i blew the main bearing on my 2003 DRZ400E. i took the time to rebuild the bottom end, replaced the transmission components with a 2009 drz400S and installed my 440 BB kit. kept the stock head since i have the E cams and all was well. unfortunately it was a budget build, meaning i only spent money on broken/warn components and didnt do much in the way of preventative replacements. Yes, that means i didn't replace my stock suzuki valves. all in all my last bottom end rebuild and BB cost me about $1100. Now onto the new build. FOR ANYONE PLANNING A REBUILD OR ANY ENGINE WORK, REPLACE THE VALVES!  

 

so, needled to say, i went out for a ride the other day, it was a beautiful -4*C and sunny. got the bike going and let it warm up completely, went out and and being quite gentle with it. Rode around for about 30 mins, decided to do a WOT after a turn and hit top speed, engine pulled strong but only got to 112km/h and then flattened out, about 4 seconds later, engine shut off. tried switching to reserve and no go, i did notice that the engine did sound different as it was in gear and still rotating. it simply sounded like no compression. got to the side of the road and tried to crank it over, it went over about 2 times and went "ping" and would not turn over again. i called for a ride and left it at that. i was hoping and praying it was the Cam Chain that had snapped. 

 

finally got a ride home, picked up my truck and trailer and went back for it, got it home and started ripping it apart. 

 

 

i have never been so sad to see the cam chain intact and in place. also to note, it was also still in time and had not skipped a tooth. 

 

so kept tearing it apart and found this

 

10986888_10153041522391438_7224836352466708537_n.jpg

 

1484217_10153041520936438_757187785549327423_n.jpg

 

10349210_10153041521286438_4677398537993825223_n.jpg

 

10407766_10153041520851438_2518133558035823703_n.jpg

 

10426224_10153041522081438_1209725643939504001_n.jpg

 

10437609_10153041521986438_3692288959815185415_n.jpg

 

10988939_10153041521451438_2637349122841908862_n.jpg

 

11010310_10153041521751438_2401388345494225043_n.jpg

 

11021093_10153041522196438_8269879924540306572_n.jpg

 

11021146_10153041520686438_6269379066656282601_n.jpg

 

11025119_10153041521376438_5357854580850167836_n.jpg

 

11025196_10153041521576438_5638988715812418269_n.jpg

 

11034250_10153041522316438_2748746722131208767_n.jpg

 

11041760_10153041521156438_6741656865686581671_n.jpg

 

11041769_10153041520781438_1037313720470641172_n.jpg

 

so im pretty sure my head is garbage, cams look good. my piston is definitely garbage and, cylinder is quite scored (garbage). so far this is going to cost more then the first rebuild (i saved $250 on valves the first time around to now spend $800 on a head + valves + springs as well as the new BB kit and probably a premature rod bearing due to the force. all was measured within spec (very very little side load play, no vertical play and minimal horizontal play as well as feels smooth but i still dont trust it) 

 

Edited by goflossurself

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its an old E so its unknown how many KM on the entire motor. to date I assume it done about 45,000km - 60,000km of abuse. the trail tech shows about 19000km, i got the bike with 1100km on the ODO and did the rebuild at about 9000km. so 10,000km on the BB and piston. 

 

the bike was ridden very hard its life. i got it dirt cheap knowing it was going to need a rebuild soon. transmission gears showed significant wear in the original block. 

 

photos were edited and added

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so for all those who remember me or followed my last rebuild thread (almost exactly a year ago), im at it again. and will once again be posting my progress and well as hopefully take more photos along the way to help others. 

 

To recap, in the fall of 2013, i blew the main bearing on my 2003 DRZ400E. i took the time to rebuild the bottom end, replaced the transmission components with a 2009 drz400S and installed my 440 BB kit. kept the stock head since i have the E cams and all was well. unfortunately it was a budget build, meaning i only spent money on broken/warn components and didnt do much in the way of preventative replacements. Yes, that means i didn't replace my stock suzuki valves. all in all my last bottom end rebuild and BB cost me about $1100. Now onto the new build. FOR ANYONE PLANNING A REBUILD OR ANY ENGINE WORK, REPLACE THE VALVES!  

 

so, needled to say, i went out for a ride the other day, it was a beautiful -4*C and sunny. got the bike going and let it warm up completely, went out and and being quite gentle with it. Rode around for about 30 mins, decided to do a WOT after a turn and hit top speed, engine pulled strong but only got to 112km/h and then flattened out, about 4 seconds later, engine shut off. tried switching to reserve and no go, i did notice that the engine did sound different as it was in gear and still rotating. it simply sounded like no compression. got to the side of the road and tried to crank it over, it went over about 2 times and went "ping" and would not turn over again. i called for a ride and left it at that. i was hoping and praying it was the Cam Chain that had snapped. 

 

finally got a ride home, picked up my truck and trailer and went back for it, got it home and started ripping it apart. 

 

attachicon.gif10987710_10153036296951438_6259968638359182392_n.jpg

 

i have never been so sad to see the cam chain intact and in place. also to note, it was also still in time and had not skipped a tooth. 

 

so kept tearing it apart and found this

 

attachicon.gif10986888_10153041522391438_7224836352466708537_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif1484217_10153041520936438_757187785549327423_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif10349210_10153041521286438_4677398537993825223_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif10407766_10153041520851438_2518133558035823703_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif10426224_10153041522081438_1209725643939504001_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif10437609_10153041521986438_3692288959815185415_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif10988939_10153041521451438_2637349122841908862_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11010310_10153041521751438_2401388345494225043_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11021093_10153041522196438_8269879924540306572_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11021146_10153041520686438_6269379066656282601_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11025119_10153041521376438_5357854580850167836_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11025196_10153041521576438_5638988715812418269_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11034250_10153041522316438_2748746722131208767_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11041760_10153041521156438_6741656865686581671_n.jpg

 

attachicon.gif11041769_10153041520781438_1037313720470641172_n.jpg

 

so im pretty sure my head is garbage, cams look good. my piston is definitely garbage and, cylinder is quite scored (garbage). so far this is going to cost more then the first rebuild (i saved $250 on valves the first time around to now spend $800 on a head + valves + springs as well as the new BB kit and probably a premature rod bearing due to the force. all was measured within spec (very very little side load play, no vertical play and minimal horizontal play as well as feels smooth but i still dont trust it) 

Your not the first by a long shot

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/234020-why-should-i-replace-my-oem-2-piece-valves/

 

Fix it

Learn from it

Move on

Ride

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I have everything open at the moment so could change out the valves, which valves should I use or do I have to replace the valve guides and valves?

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I have wondered if heavy springs and steeper cam ramp angles cause the valve to close harder, this case seems to be all stock components springs valves and cams, and I consider oem e cams a stock component, not as aggressive as say a Hot cam.

 

I ran a slight leaded race fuel diet and never had any issue, I wonder if that would have helped you guys, if maybe hot spots where developing in the seating area and slighty spot welding the vale in  the seat  or is the valve just fatiguing at its 2 piece juncture , but most mc valves come this way as oem to my knowledge.

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In general it's all about managing time on maintenance parts.  That time comes down to rotations per minuet.  If you like to run it high in the rpm then the maintenance parts will need changed more often.  High dollar race teams replace valves every 15 to 20 hours, fast amateurs every 40 to 50, the rest of the amateur crowd around 100 hours, and normal play riders may get upwards of 400 hours.  The short of it is this, these valves won't last like the ones in your car.  Get on a maintenance schedule to reduce the risk of failure. 

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Head can be rebuilt.

 

Can JPrecision in st-hubert,Qc  (South Shore of montreal)   they rebuilt/repair worst then that.

 

Be sure to have the valve guide checked or replaced!!

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Millinium Tech can fix that head! I have seen worse get fixed.

Edited by Jim BurnCycle Abbott

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Millinium Tech can fix that head! I have seen worse get fixed.

Yes it CAN be repaired.. but Why? Why pay to repair a nothing special OEM head, plus pay for the valves, and seats??

If this was a well done ported and polished head with a proven performance increase and you wanted to salvage it, then absolutely, repair it.. Or if it was unobtainium or your stuck in a third world place and used parts are not available ...then yes as well..

 

BUT.. when you can buy a non destroyed used head, send to fast heads, have back in your hands ready to go in a few days..for less than repairing and servicing that damaged head...why repair?

 

Me?? I bought a new E head and loaded it with RHC parts (twice......), plus had the ability to run a manual decomp.

 

EDIT.. well damn I may have to eat my words.. I have bought 1/2 dozen heads on ebay or forums in the last 10 years and never paid more then $125 (I checked invoices.. as little as $45, and much as $125)   I just did a quick check.... on fleybay... folks are asking ridiculous $$$ for crap used heads that still need a refresh (new valves, springs, seals, cotters, seats cut)

if repair to perferct condition can not be assured by shop and or cost is %75 of new.. Id be buying a NEW E head and loading it with new parts. ..No way id pay $500-600 for a crap used head and another few hundred to have it refreshed. 

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Interesting post Erik. I have been watching out for a spare head and have not seen anything lower in a long time. New head is over $600 plus all the parts to put in it that are good quality is going to cost a bunch. Helps if the head is salvageable these days. And man the work I saw MT do on BJ Reeds head was awesome. He had severe head, valve, crank and piston damage. Dont know how they did it but sure looked like new when it was done. I do not know the cost but I can find out...

 

I do agree if it cost more to repair than new I would buy new as well. To bad the DRZ head is not as readily available like the CRF450 heads on Big Bore Thumpers. Built and ready to go for $550 is a good price.

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ive already ordered my new built head and think i got a decent price. 

 

i took the head into a local shop that basically turned me away. yes they could fix it but they weren't even willing to quote. they recommended buying a new head to be cheaper then fixing the old one. 

 

i was also concerned about any additional stress and fatigue in the metal after a beating like that that would not have been fixed. 

 

i also checked on ebay and the costs people were asking for used heads that still needed a rebuild were crazy. they are even trying to sell a head that looks worse off then mine (the cam guides are also significantly facked) and they still wanted a significant amount. 

 

not willing to sacrifice quality for a few extra bucks again. planning on this to be my last "reactive" maintenance on the bike

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