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XR650L Starting issues...electrical?

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New owner, new member. Happy to be here with all you fine people. I've been lurking around for a while trying all the suggestions to similar problems...to no avail. I'm really hoping y'all will be able to help me out here. I apologize if this problem has been covered already somewhere but I haven't been able to find it.

 

Recent purchasee of a used 2000 XR650L. The bike came to me desmogged, and that seems to be it mods-wise -- pretty clean. The issue: the bike ran the first day I bought it. It had some trouble starting cold, but after some cranking and sitting in the sun, it started right up and I was able to ride it around for a while. I put some gas in it. Started right back up and I rode some more. I stopped, let it get cold, and it hasn't been able to start since. But wait...there's more.

 

I troubleshot the entire electrical system for continuity and payed attention to resistance. Fine. I tested all of the components and everything is in spec. I replaced the CDI -- it is aftermarket, however. (Anyone have any issues with not OEM CDIs?) I cleaned the carbs and jets (50 pilot and 160 main). Replaced the spark plug. Ensured sufficient charge on the battery. Ensured that there's spark. Boots don't seem to be cracked...

 

I'm now able to get the bike to fire, it runs for about 1 second and dies. I'm able to do this repeatedly. I'm able to give it throttle and the rpms rise as they would in normal operation, but the bike still dies within 1 second. I've ensured there's fuel in the bowl and the fuel is clean (no particulates or things that could clog the jets). It feels as if the bike is starving for fuel but that really doesn't seem to be the case. It seems electrical. I noticed that the bike will run so long as I keep the push start engaged. Soon after releasing the the starter, the bike dies. Could there be bad wiring somewhere in this circuit? Could the relay be bad? ....help preaz. 

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Try putting the kick stand up. I have an 01 with a similar problem and that solved it for me. Good luck

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+1  plugged pilot jet or passages up into the carb on that curcuit...run a sigle strand wire through all the holes in the pilot jet then blow it out with compressed air.....best bet is new jets though..

 

B

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Try putting the kick stand up. I have an 01 with a similar problem and that solved it for me. Good luck

Same behavior with the kickstand up/down. Tried jumping the clutch switch wires to ground as well to bypass all safeties - no effect. 

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+1  plugged pilot jet or passages up into the carb on that curcuit...run a sigle strand wire through all the holes in the pilot jet then blow it out with compressed air.....best bet is new jets though..

 

B

What could it possibly be plugged with? I'm not ruling this out bc it's still a suspicion. The only reason I'm really shying away from this one is because I've removed the pilot, placed in carb cleaner, run through with wire and shot carb cleaner into the pilot's port and watched the cleaner shoot out of the venturis. I've also cleaned the tank and put a glass inline fuel filter in the gas line so I know the fuel going into the bowl is clean. Even if it were clogged, wouldn't I be able to keep the bike running with throttle -- using the main jet vice the pilot? 

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Actually, it sounds like the classic plugged exhaust symptoms. Being that it isn't a seasonal yard tool and probably has an exhaust too large for critters to plug overnight, that shouldn't be the problem unless someone is fooling with you.

 

Next to that, I suspect the auto decomp may be involved. It's not that they are known to fail, but I recall at least on person who (here or another site) posted something about broken springs or something not letting go or holding inside the auto decomp and causing problems. Things like that tend to break when the engine is shut down and the final jerking action of the rotating bits coming to a stop against compression is what does it. It is classic for worn timing chain components to fail when the engine is shut down, the chain usually jumps a tooth. I've personally seen automobiles that ran until shut off, then wouldn't start and it was the timing chain.

 

Neither the auto decomp nor the camshaft timing is easily checked. The head cover needs to come off, and since it won't run, you can't check timing with a light. Fortunately, the head cover can be removed with the engine in the frame, and you shouldn't need more than one gasket to complete the inspection, although some people reuse the head cover gasket. 

 

I wouldn't go ripping into the engine until your sure you need to, I'm just suggesting that it may end up there.

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Actually, it sounds like the classic plugged exhaust symptoms. Being that it isn't a seasonal yard tool and probably has an exhaust too large for critters to plug overnight, that shouldn't be the problem unless someone is fooling with you.

 

Next to that, I suspect the auto decomp may be involved. It's not that they are known to fail, but I recall at least on person who (here or another site) posted something about broken springs or something not letting go or holding inside the auto decomp and causing problems. Things like that tend to break when the engine is shut down and the final jerking action of the rotating bits coming to a stop against compression is what does it. It is classic for worn timing chain components to fail when the engine is shut down, the chain usually jumps a tooth. I've personally seen automobiles that ran until shut off, then wouldn't start and it was the timing chain.

 

Neither the auto decomp nor the camshaft timing is easily checked. The head cover needs to come off, and since it won't run, you can't check timing with a light. Fortunately, the head cover can be removed with the engine in the frame, and you shouldn't need more than one gasket to complete the inspection, although some people reuse the head cover gasket. 

 

I wouldn't go ripping into the engine until your sure you need to, I'm just suggesting that it may end up there.

Oh dear. I was really hoping the problem weren't that deep into the engine. It's an area I've researched the least and am not familiar. What's the decomp? These springs you speak of? Would you explain what's going on in there that would up and stop the engine when it wants to run. It fires up and stays running so long as I hold the starter on. I guess the starter could be overcoming the internal friction -- but again I haven't a clue what's going on as far as timing chain goes. 

 

I appreciate the responses, y'all. Thank you.

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If it truly stays running with the starter button depressed, then it may be electrical. There are two power wires going to the CDI, one only supplies power when the starter button is depressed, so maybe the main CDI power wire has a problem. I haven't looked into how it's all set up, so you'll need to do that, but check for a blown fuse first.

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One guy i helped diagnose a running issue,no start.......ended up being the aftermarket junk CDI he bought..he didn`t believe me when i told him it was the CDI....so he sent the CDI and i repaired it and sent it back to him....the repaired/resoldered CDI solved his issue..

 

I didn`t read where you said it will run as long as the starter button is pushed..so it is possible the CDI is your issue still..

 

read my thread on repairing it....it`s your cheapest way to count that issue out..

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/881740-xrl650lnx250650transalp-cdi-repair/

 

 

 

B

Edited by brianhare

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One guy i helped diagnose a running issue,no start.......ended up being the aftermarket junk CDI he bought..he didn`t believe me when i told him it was the CDI....so he sent the CDI and i repaired it and sent it back to him....the repaired/resoldered CDI solved his issue..

I didn`t read where you said it will run as long as the starter button is pushed..so it is possible the CDI is your issue still..

read my thread on repairing it....it`s your cheapest way to count that issue out..

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/881740-xrl650lnx250650transalp-cdi-repair/

B

Thanks, B and Onderer. I opened up the old CDI and am in the process of resoldering the joints. I got a bit rough opening it up so I tore up some of the conductor strips but am going to replace with wires. I'm going to give that a shot and check the wiring again before tearing into the top end. I'll be back with results -- if anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. I'm checking very often. Thanks again.

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ya fix the old one and make sure it works but get another one to replace it and cary it as a spare.  that and a spare coil, plug and pluser and you will never be SOL out in the bush.. not too much else that will go south on you  at least with out any warning.

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On the CDI power, the B/W wire is the main power and it is on all the time unless the kill switch is in the off position. The Y/R wire is only energized when the starter button is depressed and the kill switch position does not affect it.

 

I just put the DVOM to mine and that is what I found.

 

So, if there is an electrical problem in the main CDI power circuit, you should be able to diagnose it by turning the kill switch to the off position and hitting the starter button. Mine isn't e-start anymore, and I don't remember if the starter will engage with the kill switch in the off position. If the starter won't engage this way, then scratch that diagnostic idea.

 

What I'm getting at is the G/W CDI wire is linked to the sidestand and clutch switch and there are a couple diodes in the system, if there is problem with those, then maybe you could bypass them.

 

I'm not %100 sure the Y/R wire is even a power wire, it may alter the advance to aid in easier starting. I haven't seen a single thing posted, anywhere, about that wire's function. I would think the people selling or designing aftermarket CDIs would know. If it comes down to it, since I don't have e-start anymore, I'll throw a light on it while running and see if the ignition timing changes when I depress the starter button. IF it does, then I know exactly what it's function is.

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On the CDI power, the B/W wire is the main power and it is on all the time unless the kill switch is in the off position. The Y/R wire is only energized when the starter button is depressed and the kill switch position does not affect it.

 

I just put the DVOM to mine and that is what I found.

 

So, if there is an electrical problem in the main CDI power circuit, you should be able to diagnose it by turning the kill switch to the off position and hitting the starter button. Mine isn't e-start anymore, and I don't remember if the starter will engage with the kill switch in the off position. If the starter won't engage this way, then scratch that diagnostic idea.

 

What I'm getting at is the G/W CDI wire is linked to the sidestand and clutch switch and there are a couple diodes in the system, if there is problem with those, then maybe you could bypass them.

 

I'm not %100 sure the Y/R wire is even a power wire, it may alter the advance to aid in easier starting. I haven't seen a single thing posted, anywhere, about that wire's function. I would think the people selling or designing aftermarket CDIs would know. If it comes down to it, since I don't have e-start anymore, I'll throw a light on it while running and see if the ignition timing changes when I depress the starter button. IF it does, then I know exactly what it's function is.

Put the keyswitch in the ON position, killswitch in the OFF position and ran the starter (it does engage). Y/R wire get's ~11.5 VDC. I'm not sure what this tells me? It's also in parallel with the starter relay....

 

Before that I checked the B/W wire to be sure and it indeed gets 12 VDC. So the fuses are good. Could've visually checked them but this was quicker. 

 

What's the best way to bypass the switches? Doing diagnostics I made a jumper for the clutch switch wires and jumped them to the ground bolt. I believe that bypasses all of the safety switches, correct? So that's obviously not a practical way to jump that stuff out and I'm not a fan of cutting wires so I'm trying to figure out a neat way to jump the connector under the seat to the ground bolt. 

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