I need help with 2015 Crf 450r handling!

[kx450f63]

I'm curious if any of you guys are feeling the same thing as I am with the handling characteristics of the 450 and if there is a magic bullet for it. 

 

The best way I can describe it is this, it feels like an asphalt car that is too tight in the turns.  It feels like there is little to no traction on the front tire when I start to lean into a turn and it just gets worse the closer I get to the apex.  It will push or slide out.  It gives me very little confidence that it is going to stay anywhere near where I want it to.  It's fine once I get into a rut or berm but if there is little or no berm it just pushes.

 

I've tried adjusting fork height, air pressure, compression and rebound adjustment, and rear sag.  I'm starting to feel like it's more of a chassis problem than a dampening problem.  

 

Any of you suspension guru's hear this type of complaint and what is the fix?

 

Suspension has been re valved by  FC and the ride and performance is more than acceptable everywhere except this entering and apexing of turn problem and I'm not sure it is a suspension problem unless it is a inherent problem with the PSF2 fork.

 

I've got the same question into FC and I am curious as to there response also.

[Jon-D]

yup, very familiar with that feeling.  I ditched the Honda damper and installed a Scotts and turned up the high speed a bit.  that helped.  the biggest help was the revalve, which you already did.  I then ran Maxxis tires (use to be my fav) but had the same uncomfortable feeling you were getting in the corners.  seemed like I could not get the tire to stick in the corner and I felt very uncomfortable.  per the advice of a friend I then switched to the Dunlop 32s and it felt better, although there are times I push it too hard and the front end gets loose on me.  

 

what do you run your sag at?  I run mine at about 105 and am thinking about trying 100 or 95 next time to see if I can get the tire to bite a little better.  I also noticed on the Honda it turns better if I am more in the middle rather than up front.  on my YZ it turns best if I am sitting on the gas cap, not so good further back.

[Shawn_Mc]

The back end is too soft.

[Piney Woods]

Interested in what FC says, I'll bet they get it dialed in for you. Your description is very detailed and clear, that will help a lot. But for something like this I prefer a phone call.

[KillerK]

I have noticed that I have less front end feel than my spring forks.

I too had fc revalve my suspension.

I have found that stock clicker settings work good for most conditions.

I run 1 more psi than recommended in the forks which helped a lot with cornering and stability.

I understand what you are feeling.

I think I got used to it and found a happy medium with setup.

I experimented with sag and ended up back at 105.

I'm curious to see what fc says.

I guess I can call them myself.

[twenty34]

The back end is too soft.

 

It actually could be too much sag or not enough. Get too much weight on the front end of a CRF, it can have a contradictory effect. One key variable not answered is where is his SAG set at.

[FORMA MOTO]

More rebound in the front

More compression in the rear

Less high speed compression in the rear

Remove the HSPD

Drop the forks 10 mm in the clamps

Get the sag at 100/25 exactly (springs may be required)

 

You need to shift the weight of the entire bike to the front, but not momentarily, but all the time, especially when getting rear traction and turning.

 

When you set your sag, try doing an abrupt throtte chop in a slow sweeper turn. If you are in the 'agro' positon of the seat, the rear should come out and slow you down, then return.

If you slide forward and do it again, it should come out faster and stay out longer

If you slide back, and do it again, it should understeer, but ONLY when sitting in a place on the seat where you would not normally sit for cornering (too far back)

 

What ever that sag turns out to be (probably 20-25 / 98/100), that is YOUR magic sag number finding the 'hinge' positon on the seat.

Now you can choose seat position to increase or decrease under and over steer in a corner.

[kx450f63]

A lot of good info. guys, I appreciate it.  I will give more feedback when I have a little more time but, for now:  I was thinking about trying a MX 32 front tire, MX 52 on it now. 

 

Also was thinking more offset on the triple clamps?

 

I have been adjusting sag I just haven't put it near or below the 100mm mark.  I seem to love the rear around 108mm.  My next ride, which maybe tonight, I will set it at 100mm or just below to see if it does what you think it should.

 

I like the idea of putting more weight on the front.  I'll get back to you.

[teamdooracer]

I had my sag at 100 and it turned good, but was very twitchy in the front.

[Piney Woods]

ONE change at a time!

[Jon-D]

good advice, one change at a time.  I am really curious on what you think of the bike setting the sag to 100.

[Shawn_Mc]

A lot of good info. guys, I appreciate it.  I will give more feedback when I have a little more time but, for now:  I was thinking about trying a MX 32 front tire, MX 52 on it now. 

 

Also was thinking more offset on the triple clamps?

 

I have been adjusting sag I just haven't put it near or below the 100mm mark.  I seem to love the rear around 108mm.  My next ride, which maybe tonight, I will set it at 100mm or just below to see if it does what you think it should.

 

I like the idea of putting more weight on the front.  I'll get back to you.

 

I wouldnt mess with the clamp until youve gotten as good as you can with the OEM clamp. Most of that crap is marketing to sell parts. Changine the clamp to change the trail, changes the balance of the whole bike and more than you'd think. When I put the 20mm clamp on my bike, I had to change every setting just to get it back to as good as what I had it originally, both the fork settings and all three of the shock...took me forever.

 

Id bet 80-90% of the problem is in the shock settings. If you dont have the right spring for your weight, it'll never settle in the corner and let the chassis do its work.

[KillerK]

What have the track Conditions been?

If the top layer of dirt is too wet or slimey then my bike will push and won't bite. (stock front tire)once I wear in a line, or if the track dries up or gets tacky, it will grab again.

I have also noticed that when I get tired it is worse. If I stay aggressive and on the throttle it is much better.

I feel that with more weight on the front, the worse it is.

[kx450f63]

Here is my update.  Before I rode last night I checked the free sag and race sag.  I placed a mark on the left side panel at the bottom edge that would have been inline with the rear seat bolt and center of rear axle.  That appears to be an angle close enough to the shock shaft angle. 

 

I was at 51mm free and 103mm race

 

For testing purposes I went out and rode 5 laps.  Came back in and adjusted the sag to 48mm free and 99mm race.  Went out and did 7 laps and felt it was going in the right direction but still was under steering.  Came back in and set the sag to 41mm free and 91mm race.   Went out and rode 10 laps and noticed the under steer was still getting better but it developed a weird over steer in certain situations.

 

Basically I did all this testing and new after the first sag check I most likely need a softer spring to get the sag numbers where they are recommended but I just wanted to see if I could come up with something I liked.  Ultimately that's what it is all about, making me (the rider) happy and comfy.

 

I'm not sure how much thought I want to put into the free sag verses the race sag question right now, but how important do you guys think the correlation of the two numbers really is?  Ultimately in my case I feel as though the rear spring needed to be a little stiffer or more preload to help the turning situation, yet to get the numbers in the recommended range I will need a softer spring.

 

I passed along some incorrect data to you guys and FC as far as what I thought the sag was set at.  I admit I have been loosening and tightening the rear spring preload a turn at a time just for testing purposes trying to find a setting I liked.  I intended to measure  the sag for reference when I found a setting I liked.  Based on the info I gave FC they recommended I soften (speed up) the fork rebound and set the rear sag to 104mm.  I didn't touch the forks once I new I needed a rear spring.

 

I'm calling FC now and assume they will be in agreement that I need a softer spring,  what do you guys think?

[kx450f63]

What have the track Conditions been?

If the top layer of dirt is too wet or slimey then my bike will push and won't bite. (stock front tire)once I wear in a line, or if the track dries up or gets tacky, it will grab again.

I have also noticed that when I get tired it is worse. If I stay aggressive and on the throttle it is much better.

I feel that with more weight on the front, the worse it is.

 

Most of the practice tracks and privet tracks I deal with are usually dry and hard.  Based on that I have been trying to set up for the majority not the minority.

 

I agree about the getting tired part, seems to do the same to me.

 

I'm still trying to figure out the balance and see it I like more or less weight on the front.  The beginning of testing for me seems to show I need more weight on the front.

[twenty34]

Here is my update.  Before I rode last night I checked the free sag and race sag.  I placed a mark on the left side panel at the bottom edge that would have been inline with the rear seat bolt and center of rear axle.  That appears to be an angle close enough to the shock shaft angle. 

 

I was at 51mm free and 103mm race

 

For testing purposes I went out and rode 5 laps.  Came back in and adjusted the sag to 48mm free and 99mm race.  Went out and did 7 laps and felt it was going in the right direction but still was under steering.  Came back in and set the sag to 41mm free and 91mm race.   Went out and rode 10 laps and noticed the under steer was still getting better but it developed a weird over steer in certain situations.

 

Basically I did all this testing and new after the first sag check I most likely need a softer spring to get the sag numbers where they are recommended but I just wanted to see if I could come up with something I liked.  Ultimately that's what it is all about, making me (the rider) happy and comfy.

 

I'm not sure how much thought I want to put into the free sag verses the race sag question right now, but how important do you guys think the correlation of the two numbers really is?  Ultimately in my case I feel as though the rear spring needed to be a little stiffer or more preload to help the turning situation, yet to get the numbers in the recommended range I will need a softer spring.

 

I passed along some incorrect data to you guys and FC as far as what I thought the sag was set at.  I admit I have been loosening and tightening the rear spring preload a turn at a time just for testing purposes trying to find a setting I liked.  I intended to measure  the sag for reference when I found a setting I liked.  Based on the info I gave FC they recommended I soften (speed up) the fork rebound and set the rear sag to 104mm.  I didn't touch the forks once I new I needed a rear spring.

 

I'm calling FC now and assume they will be in agreement that I need a softer spring,  what do you guys think?

25-35mm of free sag is your target after you have set your race sag. Running more than 105mm of race sag is very common BTW. Get the weight off the front end, not on it.

[Eddie8v]

I have the same problem on the 2013+ bikes no matter what air fork I use and no matter the revalve in the fork or shock, it has slowed my lap times as a result of my reduced confidence. Only happens on a few corners on each track and only the fast ones. Sux.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Eddie8v

[Shawn_Mc]

25-35mm of free sag is your target after you have set your race sag. Running more than 105mm of race sag is very common BTW. Get the weight off the front end, not on it.

 

But he's got the opposite problem. If it was over steering, you'd want to soften the back, if it understeers, you firm the back up.

 

When you reduced the sag, did you mess with the clickers at all? It may want another click of rebound to calm it back down. But it sounds like you need a softer spring, just the next one down.

 

Youre going in the right direction though, for sure.

[twenty34]

But he's got the opposite problem. If it was over steering, you'd want to soften the back, if it understeers, you firm the back up.

 

When you reduced the sag, did you mess with the clickers at all? It may want another click of rebound to calm it back down. But it sounds like you need a softer spring, just the next one down.

 

Youre going in the right direction though, for sure.

I think FC probaby got him the right spring rate, but he might have too much preload on the spring currently. Ask 5 ppl how they calc sag, and you usually see inconstencies.

[kx450f63]

The back end is too soft.

 

Do you know this from experience on this model bike?