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X vs. X Xtrainer and Yamaha YZ250X

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With availability a problem with the Xtrainer, what about the Yamaha YZ250X?  I know, no electric start and a 5 speed, but what about the everything else?  They are about the same price.....?   I used to ride Yamahas a long time ago, but are they up to Beta standards????

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With availability a problem with the Xtrainer, what about the Yamaha YZ250X?  I know, no electric start and a 5 speed, but what about the everything else?  They are about the same price.....?   I used to ride Yamahas a long time ago, but are they up to Beta standards????

 

I was looking at that. Hell yes it would be a great bike! Even 10 year old plus Yamaha's with a little flywheel weight and 18" wheels still are winning desert races and being used as trail bikes today. 

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With availability a problem with the Xtrainer, what about the Yamaha YZ250X?  I know, no electric start and a 5 speed, but what about the everything else?  They are about the same price.....?   I used to ride Yamahas a long time ago, but are they up to Beta standards????

 

The YZ250X is more comparable to the RR250, wouldn't you say? Size, weight, power delivery characteristics?

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The YZ250X is more comparable to the RR250, wouldn't you say? Size, weight, power delivery characteristics?

But not price. :naughty:

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With availability a problem with the Xtrainer, what about the Yamaha YZ250X?  I know, no electric start and a 5 speed, but what about the everything else?  They are about the same price.....?   I used to ride Yamahas a long time ago, but are they up to Beta standards????

With an x yz... it's just lame to me if we are comparing new bikes. It's just not even in the ball park to the higher standard and way improved riding of a new 2 stroke 250/300 with estart and 6 speed. To me if one wants to go that old tech.. just buy a good used 300 gasgas or ktm 300 for less. ..better yet buy a used Beta 250 or 300 rr with all the guards etc for thousands less than a new bike.Going for a new bike.. no way would I buy the new 2 stroke yz x. It's just got an 18" .. I mean it isn't even in the ball park. To me the only players for the 2 stroke enduro class  new is... ktm,husky, sherco and Beta.. New .. I'd go Beta.. That's the best choice to me.. if we are talking new. Used.. I'd still prefer a Beta and at a much lower discount.. but a good estart other 2 stroke enduro might be good if there's a deal. I like the 2011 gasgas estart 250/300 . Those work good to me and handle and have great enduro power.. as an example anyway.

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But not price. :naughty:

To me if one were to go on craigslist they could find some tricked out used yz 250's set up for trail in great shape from 3 to 4k.. and maxxed out in goodies..That would be better if going for price... That's what I have seen here and guys don't want to touch it.. Why ? when it's worth not much when everyone is going estart... and even better estart that beta has instead of the not as good design ktm.. although the newest ktm estarts are better.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Looks like the rear link on the Yamaha doesn't hang down as far as the Beta rear link...?  Yamaha is 229 with a tank of fuel, that isn't bad. Xtrainer is 218 dry.  Two gallon of gas is 12 pounds and then you'd add water and oil....?  They might be closer than you think. I would imagine Yamaha gave them a weighted flywheel.  Nice to compare.  Still have a KTM to sell.

 

http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/models/yz250x18

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There are deals like this out there... This is a much better option..  

 

 

I think this is a smokin deal.

 

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/mcy/5169739965.html

 

 

reply  x prohibited[?]

Posted: 

about 5 hours ago  

print  Beta 250 RR

Enduro

fuel: gas
transmission: manual

Beta 250 RR

*Stillwell re-valved & springs for 185 lb rider
*New SKF fork seals & serviced
*Stillwell cylinder & head work
*New handlebar
*New grips
*New clutch & front brake lever
*New clutch hydraulic hose & racing high temperature hydraulic fluid
*New seat (complete)
*New air filter
*New chain
*New lower chain guide
*TuBliss systems front & rear
*Golden front tire
*Michelin X-Trials light rear tire
*Rekluse clutch cover
*New "BETA" pipe
*High capacity "Mylars" radiators
*Fastway aluminum footpegs
*BETA rear brake disc guard

*6000.00.....Serious buyers ONLY......no trades.....no offers.....no BS

  • do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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With an x yz... it's just lame to me if we are comparing new bikes. It's just not even in the ball park to the higher standard and way improved riding of a new 2 stroke 250/300 with estart and 6 speed. To me if one wants to go that old tech.. just buy a good used 300 gasgas or ktm 300 for less. ..better yet buy a used Beta 250 or 300 rr with all the guards etc for thousands less than a new bike.Going for a new bike.. no way would I buy the new 2 stroke yz x. It's just got an 18" .. I mean it isn't even in the ball park. To me the only players for the 2 stroke enduro class  new is... ktm,husky, sherco and Beta.. New .. I'd go Beta.. That's the best choice to me.. if wo are talking new. Used.. I'd still prefer a Beta and at a much lower discount.. but a good estart other 2 stroke enduro might be good if there's a deal. I like the 2011 gasgas estart 250/300 . Those work good to me and handle and have great enduro power.. as an example anyway.

I couldn't say until I rode either one of them.  Yamaha four strokes win a lot of enduros and hare scrambles around here.  Probably because they are more available. But if you can't get an Xtrainer and you want a new bike, it might work for me.  Electric start isn't that big a deal for me because I don't compete.  The clutch would be an issue though. I like to ride in the tight stuff a gear high.

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With an x yz... it's just lame to me if we are comparing new bikes. It's just not even in the ball park to the higher standard and way improved riding of a new 2 stroke 250/300 with estart and 6 speed. To me if one wants to go that old tech.. just buy a good used 300 gasgas or ktm 300 for less. ..better yet buy a used Beta 250 or 300 rr with all the guards etc for thousands less than a new bike.Going for a new bike.. no way would I buy the new 2 stroke yz x. It's just got an 18" .. I mean it isn't even in the ball park. To me the only players for the 2 stroke enduro class  new is... ktm,husky, sherco and Beta.. New .. I'd go Beta.. That's the best choice to me.. if we are talking new. Used.. I'd still prefer a Beta and at a much lower discount.. but a good estart other 2 stroke enduro might be good if there's a deal. I like the 2011 gasgas estart 250/300 . Those work good to me and handle and have great enduro power.. as an example anyway.

No GasGas dealers around here and used Betas go at ridiculous prices. I know a guy who rode his two years and sold it for $6000.  I think it was a '13 250RR and he rode it.... hard.  The comparison would be basically weight and price.  I would bet that Yamaha has it tuned to lug some. They just slacked off for years and now they have some competition.  Normally they have to sell a million of something before they do anything, but apparently Beta and KTM have hit a nerve.  Depends on how you look at it I guess.

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I couldn't say until I rode either one of them.  Yamaha four strokes win a lot of enduros and hare scrambles around here.  Probably because they are more available. But if you can't get an Xtrainer and you want a new bike, it might work for me.  Electric start isn't that big a deal for me because I don't compete.  The clutch would be an issue though. I like to ride in the tight stuff a gear high.

The  estart to me is more important just for riding..not for competition so much. It's like a night and day difference in how much energy I expend . With an estart I'm enjoying more riding over a longer period of time.. I still ride till I'm burnt out tired but I can do a whole lot more because I'm not kicking... so comparing an estart bike with a non estart bike is just not even in the same ballpark. If it doesn't make a difference so much for you then I'd include getting  a refurbished older yz for half the price with all the bells and whistles on craigslists in a variety of places... Then there are also cr's, kx's and a bunch of other bikes with bigbore eric gorr enduro top ends too that would work for a fraction of the price of a yzx. The yzx only has the same old mods guys have already done to their bikes for a decade or more. That's lame to me considering the price. I would think yamaha would have had this bike years ago available and at a much lower price. It's the same bike for years and years.. still with a 5 speed and no estart.. just some gearing..maybe and an 18" ...but that's just my opinion though... I'd say just put your money down and get an xtrainer and wait. You'll be way happier.. just ask all the xtrainer guys.

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The 250x is so close, yet so far away from really competing with other bikes in it's class.

With out 6 gears and e start I'd have to pass.

If yamaha added those features along with a few extra cc's and a hydraulic clutch, I would line up for one....maybe we'll see one down the road.

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With availability a problem with the Xtrainer, what about the Yamaha YZ250X?  I know, no electric start and a 5 speed, but what about the everything else?  They are about the same price.....?   I used to ride Yamahas a long time ago, but are they up to Beta standards????

 

There's a good reason the XT is in short supply. Beta hit it out of the park for a demographic they weren't even aiming at, and didn't anticipate the demand for it. Beginner's bike? I wonder how many of the people who are grabbing them up are beginners? The XZ-X isn't even close to being in the same class. Nothing is. 

 

The YZ250X is more comparable to the RR250, wouldn't you say? Size, weight, power delivery characteristics?

But not price. :naughty:

 

No, not price, but how much will you spend on a YZ-X trying to make it into a tight-woods bike? 

 

Yamaha is 229 with a tank of fuel, that isn't bad. Xtrainer is 218 dry.  Two gallon of gas is 12 pounds and then you'd add water and oil....?  They might be closer than you think. I would imagine Yamaha gave them a weighted flywheel.  Nice to compare.

 

 

...and if electric start doesn't matter to you, the XT, without the e-start and with a smaller (or no) battery, would weigh really close to 200 lbs.

 

I couldn't say until I rode either one of them.  Yamaha four strokes win a lot of enduros and hare scrambles around here.  Probably because they are more available. But if you can't get an Xtrainer and you want a new bike, it might work for me.  Electric start isn't that big a deal for me because I don't compete.  The clutch would be an issue though. I like to ride in the tight stuff a gear high.

 

 

It's just my opinion, but i think that if you really "get" the XT, any comparison to a modded MX bike or off-road racer, 2-stroke or 4, is futile.

 

Yogi Berra said, "In theory, there isn't any difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is." The theory that you can take a bike that has been specialized and refined for one extreme application and turn it into a bike that is suited to an application that is almost at the opposite end of the performance spectrum overlooks the cost in time, materials, and labor of the all the adaptations required to achieve that end. 

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Interesting discussion; it could be just like the original x-trainer thread "hash & re-hash"  :rolleyes: I'll contribute even tho I'm of the opinion that everyone has an opinion that you most likely won't change. I have mentioned many times that I rode modded YZ 2T's for years and would most likely still be riding them if they would have had an electric starter and more importantly a readily available wide ratio transmission. The argument about cost of modifiying is moot; look how much many of the posters have spent on a true enduro Beta to personalize it to them. My Yamaha's were tough as an anvil, easy to work on, later models had excellent suspension that the average (me) guy could work on and damn near perfect power for most with a little flywheel weight tuning or Rekluse. I'm happy that Yamaha was slow to react as I love my Beta for all except the suspension and that is getting sorted out with just a fluid change. My YZ's for the most part were ridden for 5 yrs, sold and replaced with a new one, and I never paid over $5M for the replacement bike and most likely had less than $1,500 in initial expenditures for necessary modifications. 

 

Now, I will tell you that my Beta is easier to ride for a 73yo than the Yammie, but I still have a lot of respect for a basically 16 year old bike that still kicks butt! Just my biased opinion :ride:

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This is exactly how I feel.

 

" There's a good reason the XT is in short supply. Beta hit it out of the park for a demographic they weren't even aiming at, and didn't anticipate the demand for it. Beginner's bike? I wonder how many of the people who are grabbing them up are beginners? The XZ-X isn't even close to being in the same class. Nothing is "

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This is exactly how I feel.

 

" There's a good reason the XT is in short supply. Beta hit it out of the park for a demographic they weren't even aiming at, and didn't anticipate the demand for it. Beginner's bike? I wonder how many of the people who are grabbing them up are beginners? The XZ-X isn't even close to being in the same class. Nothing is "

There are a few that have not ridden long that are buying the xtrainer but by far the vet riders and top trail rider/racers are buying or looking to buy the xtrainer..at least locally in this small island in the middle of nowhere..but there are some hard core trail riders here..like most everywhere i think.. sort of a cross section of the market ..I tend to think. The word is out and everyone would rather keep their modded out bike that they own..but guys are riding the xtrainers and want the bike. No one really wants to dish out another 8k and more to buy a new bike and set it up. Guys purposely didn't want to ride my first 525 Beta. They saw me riding a little better with it and then I'd say the bike worked great. I'd offer  many times multiple times to other riders in our group and they didn't want to know... They didn't want to ride the bike and then feel their bike wasn't as up to par as they thought. There was a lot of "I don't want to ride that &%$#@!er and then I'm going to want to buy one"

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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It seems to me that there are two kinds of people who post opinions on the XT: those who get it and those who don't. The only real complaint among those who get it is that, because Beta intended its main market to be entry-level riders, it's sprung about two rates too soft (easy to fix). Those who don't get it complain about it not having enough suspension travel, in addition to being too soft. They complain about the limited power (though most realize that close-to-RR-power is a pipe and a few tweaks away, if the chassis could handle it). They complain that to "fix" it they would have to spend enough to bring it into the price range of an RR anyway, so why not buy an RR? And if that's the way they feel, they should buy a racer (RR, YZ-X, Katoom, whatever) because that's not what the XT is. 

 

The XT is for me (and others like me). I'm short, weak, and old, but, damnit, I can still ride, and I still love it, and race-pace is no longer in my vocabulary. I need a bike that is kind to me, and capable enough to pull me out of out-of-shape excursions without the drama of a bike that won't let my feet within inches of the ground when I need the inevitable dab, and whose engine comes on the pipe with such a vengeance that I'm on my head before I can back it off. I believe that there are enough people like me (not necessarily old, either—shorties, men and women, come to mind—and those who want a bike that works for them, not against them in gnarly terrain) who are willing to wait for what we really want, that Beta will be selling XTs for a long time to come, and because they hit the target so well, I'd bet that they have imitators when the true size of the market reveals itself. How many CRF-Fs has Honda been selling and TTRs has Yamaha been selling to people who wanted less than the CRF-Rs and YZ-Whatevers, but really wanted less weight, better suspension and handling, and maybe a little bit better power? The XT fits nicely between these extremes, and that's why I'm waiting for one.

Edited by Old Plonker
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In addition to oldplunker's post... in the tight trails I'm shreading as fast on my xt as I have on any other bike I have ridden over the years.

It took some tweaking to the xt suspension to be able to hammer..as I mostly like to do...I found the advantages of the xt's mellow power = traction, the light flickable chassis = speed and endurance, the light weight and lower seat height= fewer mistakes.

I noticed after a full day of hard riding, I'm not as sore or gassed compaired to other bikes I have owned..300xc, cr 250, gg 300.

The xt is not a do all bike but if set up right it could do just about any type of riding.

My singletrack riding philosophy is go slower to ride faster, meaning riding at a pace that results in the least amount of mistakes....and for me the xt fits that philosophy.

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In addition to oldplunker's post... in the tight trails I'm shreading as fast on my xt as I have on any other bike I have ridden over the years.

It took some tweaking to the xt suspension to be able to hammer..as I mostly like to do...I found the advantages of the xt's mellow power = traction, the light flickable chassis = speed and endurance, the light weight and lower seat height= fewer mistakes.

I noticed after a full day of hard riding, I'm not as sore or gassed compaired to other bikes I have owned..300xc, cr 250, gg 300.

The xt is not a do all bike but if set up right it could do just about any type of riding.

My singletrack riding philosophy is go slower to ride faster, meaning riding at a pace that results in the least amount of mistakes....and for me the xt fits that philosophy.

 

This is the most useful post I've read on the XT. While what I wrote is theory, this is practice, and we all remember what Yogi Berra said. If I didn't know about the XT and read this post, I would know I wanted one.

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