Xr 400r 1998 vs Ktm 350 exc street legal

[cadwarrior]

Hi, i currently own and ride a Xr400r and absolutly love the torque of this bike, im not a fast guy in the trail, i ride more on the torque. Well the trails are at 10 min. from my door, and im tired of putting it in my pickup playing 4 times with my ramps and straps for one hour ride, so i want to buy a dual sport bike and will be able to play around in the streets too. I have my eyes on a Ktm 350 exc 2012 used with 4500 km on it. Im a 230 pounds guy with my gear. My question is: will the ktm 350 will have the same amount of torque as my XR? thanks!

[slotracer577]

No, it won't have the torque of the 400. The 350 is not a torque motor. It makes power with rpm. The 350 makes a lot more power than the 400 and is lighter.

I am 225+ gear and have a 350 with a rekluse. It's a great bike with plenty of power even at 10,000 ft, but it does not have the torque of a bigger bike. Better than a 250 so it will go fine without having to rev all the time, but it's much faster when rev'd.

[jetrep]

While the XR400R is known for torque that doesn't mean it actually has all that much.  I think it is known for torque because it does not rev high and the torque starts down low.  I did a couple quick searches looking for dyno charts to compare and I encourage you to do the same.  I didn't immediately find similar charts that would be easy to compare but I did find a few notable things...

 

Max torque

XR400R  23.6ft-lb  @ 6000rpm

350EXC  23.53ft-lb  @8000rpm

 

Max hp

XR400R  30.0 @ 7000rpm

350 EXC 37.82 @ 8900rpm

 

The EXC350 has over 20ft-lb of torque starting at ~6k rpm

The XR400R has over 20ft-lb of torque starting at just over 5k rpm

 

I've had a couple XR400Rs and currently have a 350 EXC.  I like both bikes a lot but I can't say I miss the XR since getting the 350

 

If you want oodles of torque get the 500

 

[cadwarrior]

Thanks for your help and informations guys! I think I will wait to get more $ and get the 500 next summer!

[Trailryder42]

After about 6 years of riding my Y2K XR4, I was wanting a little more power and a plate. Didn't have the funds for a new bike so I put a 440 kit and Mikuni pumper in the XR and got it licensed for street. Rode it another 6 years. The magic button on the newer bikes is sure nice tho.

[mojomang]

After a dozen years on my XR400 (low mile used bike from Miles Davis' son) I finally drank the orange koolaid and bought a fully farkled '14  500 EXC with less then 1000  mile as new condition.  No comparison, the XR is a great bike but I was bottoming both ends on a good day in the socal desert.  The nice thing about the KTM, if you are plodding in technical stuff it has bottom end and is very civilized but if you want to whack the throttle and thrill ride the KTM will open your eyes wide.  Biggest dfference is the lighter weight, stuff that would have had me struggling and/or tipping over is childs play.  Great suspension although I am getting stiffer spring for my heavy wieght, it is light years ahead of an XR.  I have been out three times, changed stock gearing and love it more each time.  I do a 100 mile loop with out a care after I modified the torture rack seat.  electric leg is a bonus although my XR was always a one kicker after a little jetting.  All the years with the XR, no issues or DNFs.  I have it as a loner bike for visiting friends along with a XR200R and 650L.  Anyone listening, I need advice on rear spring and front end, a lot more to adjust than my swiss army knife XR

 

[cadwarrior]

Finally bought today a brand new KTM 500 EXC 2016,

 

the only picture I have so far is this one, will have better one the day after tomorrow ;-)

 

[Doc_d]

Finally bought today a brand new KTM 500 EXC 2016,

 

the only picture I have so far is this one, will have better one the day after tomorrow ;-)

 

 

 

That's awesome!  I recently brought home a brand new KTM 350 XCF-W.  Doing that first ride and getting to know the new bike is like being a kid on Christmas morning again.  I think at your weight and with the fact the EXCs are toned down a little with the smog equipment that you made a great choice.  

 

Once you've got some seat time on it be sure to look up the "tps adjustment thread".  Especially if you de-smog it. A quick tweak of the throttle position sensor will make it run richer and cooler.  In it's street legal form it runs lean.

 

Be sure to post up some pictures!

[cadwarrior]

 

That's awesome!  I recently brought home a brand new KTM 350 XCF-W.  Doing that first ride and getting to know the new bike is like being a kid on Christmas morning again.  I think at your weight and with the fact the EXCs are toned down a little with the smog equipment that you made a great choice.  

 

Once you've got some seat time on it be sure to look up the "tps adjustment thread".  Especially if you de-smog it. A quick tweak of the throttle position sensor will make it run richer and cooler.  In it's street legal form it runs lean.

 

Be sure to post up some pictures!

 congrats for your new 350!! and yes, its like being a kid and opening the christmas gifts under the tree!!! I can't beleive I will have this machine tomorrow morning, brand new, my verry first ever new bike in 24 years! I saw the video on the ''best dual sport'' youtube chanel for the TPS and muffler cap CNC machined, looks awesome!, we need to buy his little box to know where we are when adjusting the screw, did you bought it? Can I just leave the bike stock without doing any modification to the exhaust?

I was thinking to change the mirrors as my first modification and buy the ones that can be flipped in.

[Doc_d]

You don't need "Best Dual Sports" box to adjust the TPS.   Technically you don't need anything.  You could just probe the wires with a multimeter but doing that multiple times would tear up your insulation so I'd suggest using the wiring harness that makes it easy to probe the wires.   If you check out the "TPS adjustment" thread over in the KTM forums, there is a guy who sells a simple wiring harness (http://www.tpstool.com/).   That and a multimeter is all you need.   Yes, you can and should adjust the stock bike even with no changes.  For the XCF-W the spec is 0.60 volts from the factory.  Mine came in at 0.58 volts from the factory.  So even just getting it back to factory spec made an improvement.   But going to 0.62 volts on a completely stock XCF-W really makes it start and ride nicer.  I believe for the EXC, which is probably even leaner, people are finding that 0.64 - 0.67 volts is where you want to be.  But I'm just going from memory.  I'd suggest you read through the thread.   It's really simple to do and I'd highly recommend doing it.  If for some crazy reason you aren't happy with it, it takes 30 seconds to put it back to where it was. 

 

If you end up doing it, I'd ride your bike around a bit right before making the adjustment so you can easily feel the difference back-to-back.

 

Best Dual Sports argue's their box supplies the throttle position sensor with exactly 5 volts which makes the adjustment more accurate.  Since the ECU supplies the voltage while the bike is running, it seems a heck of a lot more accurate to use the voltage the ECU is supplying to make the adjustment.  Personally I think they are making a crazy argument to justify selling something more expensive that not only isn't needed, in my opinion won't be as accurate as using the ECU's voltage supply.

 

I can't comment on mirrors.  The dealer threw some cheap mirror on my XCF-W so he could sell it to me with a plate on it.  That thing is COMPLETELY useless which is fine since my only street riding will be to transfer between trails or possibly to ride to the trail head if we are staying near the trail.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Doc_d

[SteveThe Snakes]

While the XR400R is known for torque that doesn't mean it actually has all that much.  I think it is known for torque because it does not rev high and the torque starts down low.  I did a couple quick searches looking for dyno charts to compare and I encourage you to do the same.  I didn't immediately find similar charts that would be easy to compare but I did find a few notable things...

 

Max torque

XR400R  23.6ft-lb  @ 6000rpm

350EXC  23.53ft-lb  @8000rpm

 

Max hp

XR400R  30.0 @ 7000rpm

350 EXC 37.82 @ 8900rpm

 

The EXC350 has over 20ft-lb of torque starting at ~6k rpm

The XR400R has over 20ft-lb of torque starting at just over 5k rpm

 

I've had a couple XR400Rs and currently have a 350 EXC.  I like both bikes a lot but I can't say I miss the XR since getting the 350

 

If you want oodles of torque get the 500

Hum your comparing torque at one with 6,000 rpm and the other at 8,000???

Try off idle torque. The XR shines big time the KTM is peaky. So much depends on where you ride. If it's screaming the bike on wide open areas or fire roads the KTM is great on power. If it's off idle nasty off cambers or difficult technical riding the XR would shine.

[jetrep]

Hum your comparing torque at one with 6,000 rpm and the other at 8,000???

Try off idle torque. The XR shines big time the KTM is peaky. So much depends on where you ride. If it's screaming the bike on wide open areas or fire roads the KTM is great on power. If it's off idle nasty off cambers or difficult technical riding the XR would shine.

I did not compare torque with one at 6k and 8k, i simply listed them.  All I was pointing out is that the bike is not the epitome of torque.  I don't recall what torque is off idle or if it was shown on the charts.  You are welcome to do so.  In no way is my post a jab at the XR400R

[SteveThe Snakes]

I did not compare torque with one at 6k and 8k, i simply listed them.  All I was pointing out is that the bike is not the epitome of torque.  I don't recall what torque is off idle or if it was shown on the charts.  You are welcome to do so.  In no way is my post a jab at the XR400R

Unfortunately Dynos don't do well at off idle torque.

[dlock5]

Finally bought today a brand new KTM 500 EXC 2016,

the only picture I have so far is this one, will have better one the day after tomorrow ;-)

did u keep the xr4 also.

[cadwarrior]

 

You don't need "Best Dual Sports" box to adjust the TPS.   Technically you don't need anything.  You could just probe the wires with a multimeter but doing that multiple times would tear up your insulation so I'd suggest using the wiring harness that makes it easy to probe the wires.   If you check out the "TPS adjustment" thread over in the KTM forums, there is a guy who sells a simple wiring harness (http://www.tpstool.com/).   That and a multimeter is all you need.   Yes, you can and should adjust the stock bike even with no changes.  For the XCF-W the spec is 0.60 volts from the factory.  Mine came in at 0.58 volts from the factory.  So even just getting it back to factory spec made an improvement.   But going to 0.62 volts on a completely stock XCF-W really makes it start and ride nicer.  I believe for the EXC, which is probably even leaner, people are finding that 0.64 - 0.67 volts is where you want to be.  But I'm just going from memory.  I'd suggest you read through the thread.   It's really simple to do and I'd highly recommend doing it.  If for some crazy reason you aren't happy with it, it takes 30 seconds to put it back to where it was. 

 

If you end up doing it, I'd ride your bike around a bit right before making the adjustment so you can easily feel the difference back-to-back.

 

Best Dual Sports argue's their box supplies the throttle position sensor with exactly 5 volts which makes the adjustment more accurate.  Since the ECU supplies the voltage while the bike is running, it seems a heck of a lot more accurate to use the voltage the ECU is supplying to make the adjustment.  Personally I think they are making a crazy argument to justify selling something more expensive that not only isn't needed, in my opinion won't be as accurate as using the ECU's voltage supply.

 

I can't comment on mirrors.  The dealer threw some cheap mirror on my XCF-W so he could sell it to me with a plate on it.  That thing is COMPLETELY useless which is fine since my only street riding will be to transfer between trails or possibly to ride to the trail head if we are staying near the trail.

thanks for the informations, will read it!

[cadwarrior]

 

 

did u keep the xr4 also. 

no, sold it to finance the Orange thing

[cadwarrior]

My seller at the garage just sent me this picture 2 min. ago, whooohoooo, bike assembled and ready to ride!!! can't wait to tomorrow morning!!!, like a child at christmas

 

[SteveThe Snakes]

My seller at the garage just sent me this picture 2 min. ago, whooohoooo, bike assembled and ready to ride!!! can't wait to tomorrow morning!!!, like a child at christmas

 

The 500's have torque. Nice bike.

[Doc_d]

My seller at the garage just sent me this picture 2 min. ago, whooohoooo, bike assembled and ready to ride!!! can't wait to tomorrow morning!!!, like a child at christmas

Man it's going to be a long night! You might want to pick up some oil and a filter when you pick it up. KTM calls for an oil change after the first hour of break in. Well at least it did on the XCF-W. I'm just guessing it's the same on the EXC. Personally I'd stick to the Motorex oil for the first change or two in case there is any kind of warranty issue. I know people use all kinds of oil (diesel, etc) but I worry about their compatibility with the the clutch. I'd also see if they'll help you set the sag when you pick it up. Otherwise you'll have to wait until you get the right wrench or have to use a punch and hammer on the locking ring. Edited December 9, 2015 by Doc_d

[cadwarrior]

Man it's going to be a long night! You might want to pick up some oil and a filter when you pick it up. KTM calls for an oil change after the first hour of break in. Well at least it did on the XCF-W. I'm just guessing it's the same on the EXC. Personally I'd stick to the Motorex oil for the first change or two in case there is any kind of warranty issue. I know people use all kinds of oil (diesel, etc) but I worry about their compatibility with the the clutch. I'd also see if they'll help you set the sag when you pick it up. Otherwise you'll have to wait until you get the right wrench or have to use a punch and hammer on the locking ring.

thanks for the advices, will ask the seller for the breaking in procedure