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Beta 250RR - 250RR Racing v. Yamaha YZ250X

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This is a better comparison and it should be interesting if Yamaha makes the decision to get serious.  

Yea it's going to be like the other threads..guys just like what they like.. but there's no comparison. It's Beta. ..but guys are gonna like yz too ... brand loyalty .. and also it's what kind of terrain guys think are "enduro". Lots think enduro is just wide open.. In that case any mx bike modded is good enough.. not the best but the comparison gets closer. In the tight hard core trails ... well it's the same as the other threads.

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What's the comparison? One is a modified MX bike for offroad, the other is a pure offroad bike. One has e-start, 6spd, lighting capabilities etc ect. The other has a wider ratio 5spd, based off a pure MX engine that's been slightly detuned with some of the best stock suspension you can buy and approx 10lbs lighter...

If I was a betting man, the YZX will be a better rounded machine but will lose points on the extreme end of both sides...

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Wouldn't a YZ360X, with estart and a six speed be sweet?

They did it with the 4 strokes... yzx's that are 4 stroke have estart and 6 speed.. but they seem to purposely hold back on the 2 stroke. i think that's by design because the 4 stroke has the handicap so they get what should go on all the bikes..They don't want to slit their own throats and lose sales on their 4 stroke line.. that's my guess. So they keep the same old 2 stroke design.. with foo foo additions this year.. keep milking the public and the yz faithful and milk it to death... no R and D.. zero.. these mods are  all old shit that the yz trail guys have been doing forever.. All one has to do is look at mods from 10 or 15 and more years ago on threads and you'll just see the same stuff. Still a good bike.. but not great. ..just that yamah is the only game in town in still producing 2 stroke bikes from japan..I give them some credit.. but not much when compared to the euros. Same old story here. This same story was going around around 2007 and earlier when I was riding honda and we were talking about if Honda was going to change their mind and make 2 strokes again. and then kx 250's were still around with no 450f kx... I mean there have been a lot of conversations on this ever since the  race rules gave an unfair advantage to 4 strokes.. this is all just residual bull that we just have to eat.. So what happens when many look down the line in an offroad event? Mainly ktm in one form or another...for a lot of places. Not where I am.. still a wide variety of 2 strokes.. some 4 but not majority.

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What's the comparison? One is a modified MX bike for offroad, the other is a pure offroad bike. One has e-start, 6spd, lighting capabilities etc ect. The other has a wider ratio 5spd, based off a pure MX engine that's been slightly detuned with some of the best stock suspension you can buy and approx 10lbs lighter...

If I was a betting man, the YZX will be a better rounded machine but will lose points on the extreme end of both sides...

Pretty good but of course there's a bigger picture than the yzx and Beta rr. It's what can we all get for our money and what are we riding and racing.. open ? extreme?..but you mentioned that.. but why would I want to buy an x when I can usually get (at least locally) a fully modded for trail 2 stroke mx bike converted for trail (yz,cr,kx,rm) for half of a new x is..and modded to the max with all the goodies? ..why? because guys with those kinds of bikes locally are maxed out in fixing up their bikes , now selling, and getting a ktm, gasgas, Beta, sherco with estart. Now I know the type of riding and racing is different across the country.. so the replies are different according to that. A yzx may be a bigger draw for the more open hare scramble crowd. ..but here and other places with the more extreme crowd the wants are different. .Still all around.. for every kind of riding? Beta wins..It just covers more basis.. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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They did it with the 4 strokes... yzx's that are 4 stroke have estart and 6 speed.. but they seem to purposely hold back on the 2 stroke. i think that's by design because the 4 stroke has the handicap so they get what should go on all the bikes..They don't want to slit their own throats and lose sales on their 4 stroke line.. that's my guess. So they keep the same old 2 stroke design.. with foo foo additions this year.. keep milking the public and the yz faithful and milk it to death... no R and D.. zero.. these mods are  all old shit that the yz trail guys have been doing forever.. All one has to do is look at mods from 10 or 15 and more years ago on threads and you'll just see the same stuff. Still a good bike.. but not great. ..just that yamah is the only game in town in still producing 2 stroke bikes from japan..I give them some credit.. but not much when compared to the euros. Same old story here. This same story was going around around 2007 and earlier when I was riding honda and we were talking about if Honda was going to change their mind and make 2 strokes again. and then kx 250's were still around with no 450f kx... I mean there have been a lot of conversations on this ever since the  race rules gave an unfair advantage to 4 strokes.. this is all just residual bull that we just have to eat.. So what happens when many look down the line in an offroad event? Mainly ktm in one form or another...for a lot of places. Not where I am.. still a wide variety of 2 strokes.. some 4 but not majority.

The reason Yamaha ignored the two strokes is because they only race four strokes in MX.  Since two strokes are going good in hare scrambles etc., Yamaha put what it could out there quick and is testing the waters to see if they want to pump the money into a pure enduro bike IMO.  

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The reason Yamaha ignored the two strokes is because they only race four strokes in MX.  Since two strokes are going good in hare scrambles etc., Yamaha put what it could out there quick and is testing the waters to see if they want to pump the money into a pure enduro bike IMO.  

But they make wr 4 strokes with estart and 6 gears..

I don't even think that they are testing the waters.... Yamaha has made enduros forever..and hasn't done anything to this bike for a decade..and hasn't made a wr 2 stroke for waaaay long.... I don't think they are testing the waters.. They know exactly what's up.. they just look at ktm. ...but the japanese gave up on 2 stroke knowing very well what the market is like.. yamaha was alone and left the same bike out there knowing they would be the only japanese 2t game in town.. and have milked this..still milking this..

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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But they make wr 4 strokes with estart and 6 gears..

I don't even think that they are testing the waters.... Yamaha has made enduros forever..and hasn't done anything to this bike for a decade..and hasn't made a wr 2 stroke for waaaay long.... I don't think they are testing the waters.. They know exactly what's up.. they just look at ktm. ...but the japanese gave up on 2 stroke knowing very well what the market is like.. yamaha was alone and left the same bike out there knowing they would be the only japanese 2t game in town.. and have milked this..still milking this..

I disagree, time will tell.  I have a good dealer, I'd never buy a Yamaha unless he started selling them... again.  Betas aren't perfect, but they're close enough for me. :smirk:

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I disagree, time will tell.  I have a good dealer, I'd never buy a Yamaha unless he started selling them... again.  Betas aren't perfect, but they're close enough for me. :smirk:

Yea.. I could be royally wrong.. and wouldn't that be good .. estart 2 stroke yz 300's or even yz 400 2 strokes.. if I'm wanting why not go big?. Beta's are dirt bikes.. If I wanted to go more crazy with Beta i could go with some Boano racing ohlins made just for me.. or some Stillwell suspended special suspension with some fox podium shocks and some hoity toity fork.. of whatever choice..  For that matter what I really would have wanted from a few years ago is an estart 2 stroke cr 250.. well cr 300. I'm a honda guy .. and even I'm a Husky guy.. so say ktm actually gets off their ass and makes a 2 stroke motor with a quality estart like their 4 strokes.. then husky.. actually there are a lot of ifs and whens and etc.. but right now is what we have and for right now Beta is the best from what I can see.. and actually ride.  I like my dealer too. I was with him with my cr and knew him from riding for decades. What's good is he works on everything ..So if I ever left Beta for some reason I'd go to whatever works best at the time.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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The YZ is stiff, aggressive, a little squirley under full throttle, can jump triples, has a trans and clutch that last for decades, has a power band peak, and has fantastic stock parts.

 

...but you can't ride it for 8 hours unless you are in fantastic shape, and have the suspension professionally set up for your skills.....

 

The BETA is compliant, linear, planted geometry, has a wider and flatter power band, has lighting, has another gear, and can be ridden for 8 hours.

 

 

If you need to WIN a 90 min GNCC race, I would pick the YZ.

 

If you want to RIDE and have fun on all kinds of terrain, for 560 minutes, I would pick the BETA.

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The YZ is stiff, aggressive, a little squirley under full throttle, can jump triples, has a trans and clutch that last for decades, has a power band peak, and has fantastic stock parts.

 

...but you can't ride it for 8 hours unless you are in fantastic shape, and have the suspension professionally set up for your skills.....

 

The BETA is compliant, linear, planted geometry, has a wider and flatter power band, has lighting, has another gear, and can be ridden for 8 hours.

 

 

If you need to WIN a 90 min GNCC race, I would pick the YZ.

 

If you want to RIDE and have fun on all kinds of terrain, for 560 minutes, I would pick the BETA.

 

 

Yea... We had an extreme enduro at the beginning of this year.. There's no way I would have finished without and estart and my not great conditioning. I was one of 4 that finished in the B's .. with all their checks.. and it took 7 hrs. Everyone blitzed past me at the beginning.. like it was going to be a 3 hr race..but it wasn't.. i passed a whole lot of guys that dropped off.. turtle and the hare action.. and I got to see a bunch of riders that we were talking to each other..along the way burnt and tired and passing back and forth say 4 or 5 times sometimes.. It's a win to finish..Huge advantage to have estart. The guy that won the A's and overall rode a modified yz 250.. about 20 yrs old or so.. young fit and hungry... It took him 9 hrs to finish the A class. Only a couple of guys finished the A class..and think only a couple got all their checks..  There were lots of all kinds of brands.. but almost all 2 strokes ..and way more Betas than ever before..but in those the edge went to those able to conserve energy and pace..go fast in the open stuff and not make mistakes and not panic.. breathe... For the 4th of july hare scrambles a top rider rode a 300 rr Beta to win overall.. So it still will come down to whatever anyone wants to ride.. but between a yz and a Beta overall?  I mean if yz 250's had estart  and 6 gears right now what would yz riders say? ..Yz's are the best.. What do yz 4 stroke riders say that will have the 6 speed 4 stroke with estart? ..that they want to go back to no estart and 5 gears?.. nope..  This is the same conversation over at the yamaha threads.. I don't think some of the yamaha faithful care for me there.. but over and over again in the end it's just what is.

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Worst stock seat ever,

I dont like any of the newer thin seats on the new bikes. ..ktm..gasgas etc..thin and then the frame is there..my cr seat was way better..I ordered the new seat concepts seat right away. Beta was low enough that the high foam seat was good enough and still lower than other bikes..but yea the beta seats have sucked depending on year..weird the stock 13 300rr seat wasnt bad..still I wanted better.

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2 other things to consider is price and dealership location. You can get into a Yamaha for considerably less then a Beta. For some that is a deal breaker in itself...

 

Yup. A Yammie is a bargin.....that's why I still one one, and have owned the same year/model, used, four times....

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I dont like any of the newer thin seats on the new bikes. ..ktm..gasgas etc..thin and then the frame is there..my cr seat was way better..I ordered the new seat concepts seat right away. Beta was low enough that the high foam seat was good enough and still lower than other bikes..but yea the beta seats have sucked depending on year..weird the stock 13 300rr seat wasnt bad..still I wanted better.

My stock seat is in the closet and I have a seat concepts.  I get crap from my dealer all the time about, "You're not supposed to sit on them, you're supposed to ride them,"  all the time.  The older you get, the heavier your butt gets and as a result it likes to nest on the seat more....he'll be there someday and I hope I'm around to give him crap about it!    :smirk:   

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I'm 58 years old.

 

I rode 48 miles of  beat-to-death forest single track yesterday on a YZ450/WR with an extra tall seat, SRS revalved KYB SSS suspension, and I stood up 50% of the time.

 

My ass and my back still hurt.....

 

 

 

You gotta do what you gotta do to keep riding.

 

My 430 seat will be taller and softer than ever before in the history of man....

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