500 EXC, Harsh Engine Vibration

[jmd426]

 

 

 

 

Hey OP, pull that crank out and send it to this guy.. ?

 

That must be where ktm has theirs assembled

[our man in bangkok]

400+hours of HARD endure and no vibration issues.

It is possible that the original posters bike was a lemon.

It is possible to get the balancer off by 1 tooth and cause issues.

[KTMfinrider]

That must be where ktm has theirs assembled

? F%k with the dial indicator, balance it with your eye.

[Roam]

New guy here.  Wondering if the OP ever figured out the issue or got help from the dealer or KTM? 

 

Purchased my first KTM yesterday, 2015 500 exc-f, rode it home and it has a wicked vibration, definitely engine RPM related and it pulses, enough to chatter my teeth and make me question the amount of cash left behind.  I have never experienced this type of oscillation on any other big thumper and the way it cycles leads me to think there's an issue with the balance shaft timing.  This is all futile guessing of course and it'll be Tuesday before I can contact the dealership.  I plan to put a few miles on it this morning, do a little more investigation, then change the oil and look for anything suspicious.

 

I understand that KTM is a competition oriented brand and their dual-sports are not designed like a Honda crf250l but I am amazed at the number of issues in just 45 minutes of use.  The fuel light flashes continuously and for about 10 minutes the dash display went completely blank, (while riding), the plastic side-panel/airbox cover doesn't fit properly and one of the retaining clips is damaged and needs to be replaced, the stickers are also already peeling off of the rear fender.  Small things but not what I expected from a world-class manufacturer.  Just venting I guess, I will see how the dealer responds this week and hopefully get some satisfaction, just bummed because I was hoping to hit the trails this afternoon.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Roam

[Spud786]

The retaining clips  are part of the airbox, so the whole thing would need to be replaced.  While any 500 single is going to have more vibes than a Honda 250(or any other bike really), most of the ktms is the unbalanced tires. If you haven't done that , Id start there.  Clips are replaceable, just need a rivet gun.

 

Ive actually never ridden the ktm totally unbalanced, as I made them add weight before even taking the bike, it still only half way balanced, up to maybe 50 mph was okay. 

 

The fuel light , stickers and display going blank during riding, sound like some additional warranty stuff.

 

You can make the 500 vibrate a lot if taken beyond peak horse, Ive done that.

 

Having said that(set up), this bike is one handed at post 100 mph, and no issue letting go of the bars at 75 mph. I could probably let go at 100, but at 75 im comfortable with , which says its stable.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Spud786

[BDM]

Thanks for the KTM engine contact Bruce! He's a few hours away, I will have to find a truck, but worth it. Hopefully the dealer can tighten the mounts and resolve this quickly.

I've also been adviced to take accelerometer readings of the vibration from several similar bikes. Tested one KTM 500 and my bike is putting out 3.7 times the average vibration in the vertical direction...I guess that's like sitting on a 2000 cc thumper. But I need better measuring equipment to know for sure, and something I can mount directly to the engine would be better.

 

I believe this might have been BigJim's most recent post in this forum.

 

I too would like to know what if anything was resolved. TT can only function as a goto source for information if folks are willing to share the knowledge gained from their experiences.

 

Bruce

Edited February 7, 2016 by BDM

[Roam]

I believe this might have been BigJim's most recent post in this forum.

 

I to would like to know what if anything was resolved. TT can only function a a goto source for information if folks are willing to share the knowledge gained from their experiences.

 

Bruce

 

I will report when I know more about my issue.  To be clear I am pretty sure this isn't a tire issue, though the bike did come with surprisingly aggressive DOT Metzlers.  While cruising smooth pavement, (I know, I know I'm doing it wrong already!), I can change the frequency of the vibration by changing gears and it disappears if I pull in the clutch, it isn't a steady vibe either, it cycles several seconds on, a couple seconds off, and the frequency of the cycles is tied to engine RPM not road speed.  Its bad enough that it makes seeing clearly difficult as the OP stated, it's like riding an old AMF Sportster, (and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone)!

 

I changed the oil per the manual recommendation this morning, warm engine after initial hour of use, there was more metal than I'd like to see, a couple small slivers 1-2mm in length, but I'll write that off to break-in unless I find more next time.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Roam

[Spud786]

The dot metzlers are very good street tires surpringly, I ran them bald, unless you balance the tires, out of balance vibrations come at all different speeds and at differnt times, some will have the bike bouncing up and down and then goes away at the same speed.

 

I would suggest fixing the well known simple stuff first.

 

 

I mentioned 50 mph was okay with half balance tires, still vibrations all over the place at different times, but the bike was altleast ridable to the house (and not try to kill you). Being totally unbalance I would expect  more a horror story.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Spud786

[IAoffroader]

My 2016 KTM 500 EXC with 600 miles on it went back to the dealer for inspection due to what I thought was unusually harsh vibration.  Initially they thought the vibration was normal for this model but after talking to the KTM Technical Dept. they were told to replace the crankshaft.  I thought it had a high level of vibration, it became uncomfortable to ride after about 10 minutes, so my concerns were confirmed.  The dealer handled it extremely well as did KTM - no complaints whatsoever.   

[BDM]

I can change the frequency of the vibration by changing gears and it disappears if I pull in the clutch, it isn't a steady vibe either, it cycles several seconds on, a couple seconds off, and the frequency of the cycles is tied to engine RPM not road speed.  Its bad enough that it makes seeing clearly difficult as the OP stated, it's like riding an old AMF Sportster, (and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone)!

 

Just to cover the bases:

Do to long travel suspension and chain geometry, KTMs need to run the chain loose which results in chain slap which can happen at any speed under power. Tends to be more pronounced at lower RPM (lugging) and is somewhat harmonic so varies. This can feel like a stutter.  While there are ways to lessen it can not be totaly eliminated.

[Cycle_Path]

I got a 16 500 exc fully expecting to have to deal with massive vibration issues based on these forums. Danged if the bike isn't the smoothest bike I ever rode. Seems like some vibrate and some don't.

[Dirtman13]

I did notice a little vibration on my 16' 500 on the highway. Nothing so bad I didn't want to ride. I replaced the the stock rim locks with the Motion Pro Lite Locks. This did make a difference for me. Rear was 22.6 grams lighter and the front was 10.4 grams lighter.

[Roam]

All good advice, thanks guys.  Taking mine to the dealer tomorrow, I'll have them ride it and assess.  If it's just tires, chain, or rim balance I'll be surprised but happy.  we'll see...

[Roam]

Picked the bike up last night.  The dealer spent a lot of time with it, I asked him to ride it and give me his opinion, they believe the vibe is tire and wheel balance as many of you had suggested.  He was very thorough and moved tires on the rims and even swapped out wheels from a 2016 showroom bike.  He says it's not perfect but better and I can keep playing around with different balancing techniques.  The gauge cluster was replaced under warranty (yeah! it's a 0 miles bike again), and the airbox cover fitment issue was addressed.  I'm going to go play in the mud today and see how this bike does in its natural habitat.

 

[Spud786]

Picked the bike up last night.  The dealer spent a lot of time with it, I asked him to ride it and give me his opinion, they believe the vibe is tire and wheel balance as many of you had suggested.  He was very thorough and moved tires on the rims and even swapped out wheels from a 2016 showroom bike.  He says it's not perfect but better and I can keep playing around with different balancing techniques.  The gauge cluster was replaced under warranty (yeah! it's a 0 miles bike again), and the airbox cover fitment issue was addressed.  I'm going to go play in the mud today and see how this bike does in its natural habitat.

 

Why didn't you have them balance the tires while there, the dealer balance should be okay , not to my spec but okay.

 

 

you do know the tires don't come balanced and the dealer isn't going to do it for free, it takes over 4 ounces to balance the rear and around 3 for the front.  There should be zero issue with tire balance if you actually balance them.

 

just swapping one bike unbalances tire with another bikes tire doesn't do much , neither does rotating the tires on the rim, they are too far off ever to make a difference UNTIL you ACTUALLY balance them.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Spud786

[r6realtor]

Why didn't you have them balance the tires while there, the dealer balance should be okay , not to my spec but okay.

 

 

you do know the tires don't come balanced and the dealer isn't going to do it for free, it takes over 4 ounces to balance the rear and around 3 for the front.  There should be zero issue with tire balance if you actually balance them.

 

just swapping one bike unbalances tire with another bikes tire doesn't do much , neither does rotating the tires on the rim, they are too far off ever to make a difference UNTIL you ACTUALLY balance them.

Spud is spot on! Just get those spoke weights from ebay it takes 10 minutes if that to do yourself, I ended up with 5 ounces on the rear and 3.5 on the front directly across from the rim lock/valve stem. My rides perfectly smooth at any speed on the knobbies, although I have not been to 100mph yet.

[Chas_M]

Spud is spot on! Just get those spoke weights from ebay it takes 10 minutes if that to do yourself, I ended up with 5 ounces on the rear and 3.5 on the front directly across from the rim lock/valve stem. My rides perfectly smooth at any speed on the knobbies, although I have not been to 100mph yet.

 

 

 

Very good.

 

Wheel balancing, both front and rear, is the key.

[Roam]

Why didn't you have them balance the tires while there...

 

 

you do know the tires don't come balanced and the dealer isn't going to do it for free...

 

Exactly. 

 

The problem didn't feel like a balance issue to me so that's why it went back, brand new bike, not going to take chances with what felt like a powertrain issue to me.   I rode FS roads and some greasy single-track today, the bike absolutely shines in the environment it was intended for, I'll work on it's road manners as time goes on.  My goal is to use this as a dual sport so some pavement use is going to be required.  Spoke weights have been ordered and the shopping list is growing...

[IAoffroader]

The vibration experienced on my bike wasn't dependent on speed - it vibrated when in neutral sitting still and when in gear riding.  I did have new Dunlop D606 tires installed and the wheels balanced while the bike was in the shop but wheel vibration at speed wasn't the major issue with my particular bike.  I even had the Best Dual Sports vibration dampers installed in my bars and while they helped slightly this wasn't a long term solution. By the way, initially the dealer thought that the vibration was normal and it wasn't until they discussed it with KTM's Technical department that it was decided the crank needed replacement.  When hands go numb after 5  minutes of riding something serious is going on.

[LukeK]

Reviving a long dead thread, because I'm facing a similar issue. I've had my 2013 500 EXC for just about a year now and I've been fighting the vibes since day 1.

I balanced my dirt tires to calm the wheel vibrations before switching to a supermoto setup that rolls perfectly smooth so that definitely isn't the issue. I feel it mostly in my hands while sitting (independent of speed), but also in my feet whenever I stand up. Picking around in some dirt the other day had me feathering the clutch a lot and I very quickly lost feeling in my fingers from the vibrations. This was definitely the fastest I'd felt the effects, as I can usually ride for a good 45 minutes before the shaking starts to get to me. 1 hour rides and longer pretty much always end up with numb index and middle fingers on both hands as I usually two-finger the clutch and front brake.

Is the source of the problem almost certainly the crank needing balancing? Or could it be that the counterbalance is just out a tooth or so? Do both of these issues require splitting the cases making the hopeful difference in cost pretty negligible?

I've already sunk a lot of money into this bike and I really love it, but these vibes are downright awful...