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650L fuel injection

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Will somebody with more money, time, and brains than me please try this system on their L so I'll know if I should start saving my allowance.

 

Thanks, in advance.  :ride:

I think you will be hard pressed to find someone on here who will try it. It takes away from the simplicity of the xr650l. It's just something to worry about.( fuel injection, sensors) etc. The pig is just a simple, bullet proof piece of machinery. A carb, air cooled motor and such. If you want fuel injection and all the latest technology such as water cooling :lol: ...your probaly better off trading the old girl in.

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That's exactly what I've been mulling over in my mind since I bought the L.  I love the simplicity of it.  I love that the technology of it hasn't changed in so many years...sort of.  I think the carburetor is one spot where Honda has been just plain lazy though.  There are shortcomings with any carburetor but the one they've chosen to stick with is technology better left to a push mower.  

 

I am a Harley Davidson mechanic with 12 years working on them now and I can say that I would never go back to a carbureted HD.  It is pretty amazing how reliable they are.  It is also pretty amazing how much more enjoyable they've become since fuel injection became the standard.  And, also being a big bore, air cooled, bike I appreciate how much control the fuel injection system affords.

 

The thing that is keeping me from spending the money on this system is the question of this company's design and workmanship.  If it was someone like Delphi it wouldn't be a question but I think back to the early days of the HD Magneti Marelli system, which was a disaster, and I can't help but wonder if this system is good quality.

 

Water cooling isn't for me, but the quest for the best burn, through all kinds of weather, fuel types, and elevations, is.  

 

The old girl isn't going anywhere but she is a work in progress. 

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I wouldn't spend $100 to add fuel injection to my XR650L, let alone $800!

 

Mine runs good enough with the original carburetor plus a bit of jetting.  What particular problem are you hoping to fix?

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I'd like to have quicker throttle response, consistent acceleration, with max fuel mileage.

I too have the stock carb. I've worked with it a little. I have done Dave's mods and ran a few jet combos. Nothing I've come up with yet has gotten rid of the problem areas. Carb limitations I'm sure. Ignition limitations as well.

An FCR swap would no doubt make a big difference but that isn't cheap or easy either.

It's plenty rideable and I don't miss an opportunity to do so, but it's also a little frustrating knowing that the engine and the ride can be much better with better fuel and spark management.

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I'd like to have quicker throttle response, consistent acceleration, with max fuel mileage.

I too have the stock carb. I've worked with it a little. I have done Dave's mods and ran a few jet combos. Nothing I've come up with yet has gotten rid of the problem areas. Carb limitations I'm sure. Ignition limitations as well.

An FCR swap would no doubt make a big difference but that isn't cheap or easy either.

It's plenty rideable and I don't miss an opportunity to do so, but it's also a little frustrating knowing that the engine and the ride can be much better with better fuel and spark management.

a member here, captain midnight, built his own system some years ago using megasquirt. u can do a search here to find it. i think it was also mentioned in pablos turbo build. anyhow, captain midnight is no longer with us to ask.

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Will somebody with more money, time, and brains than me please try this system on their L so I'll know if I should start saving my allowance.

 

Thanks, in advance.  :ride:

Excellent idea! Doesn't look like there are any takers so it's up to you now Hollerhead. "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together." (Red Green) ;)

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I'd like to have quicker throttle response, consistent acceleration, with max fuel mileage.

I too have the stock carb. I've worked with it a little. I have done Dave's mods and ran a few jet combos. Nothing I've come up with yet has gotten rid of the problem areas. Carb limitations I'm sure. Ignition limitations as well.

An FCR swap would no doubt make a big difference but that isn't cheap or easy either.

It's plenty rideable and I don't miss an opportunity to do so, but it's also a little frustrating knowing that the engine and the ride can be much better with better fuel and spark management.

You just need an S&S super B on it ..

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You just need an S&S super B on it ..

Funny you say that.  I wouldn't try a B but I have an E, my favorite bike carb, I'm working on a manifold for.  I'm excited to see if it works, if I ever get it tucked in there.

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Funny you say that. I wouldn't try a B but I have an E, my favorite bike carb, I'm working on a manifold for. I'm excited to see if it works, if I ever get it tucked in there.

I forgot the E has the pump not the B .. Ha ha !! I have one on my old 81 FXE ..

And I like that carb too , very simple .. Like my Edelbrock on the L .. I was never satisfied with that crap stock carb no matter what I did to it.. I put on the pumper and never looked back..

I like the simplicity, but parts for the edelbrock are hard to come by now even though it's never been an issue on mine.

I wouldn't hesitate to put another on if I ever pickup a second L .. I think JEGS still offers them for around $400

I know one person on here put a Lectron on the L and I'd be curious to see how well it worked since they don't have an AC pump on them..

I think your E would actually work quite well if you ever figure out how to adapt it.

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In my opinion, there are better DIY "enthusiast" EFI systems than the one from Ecotrons.

 

Despite its flaws, MegaSquirt/Microsquirt has better documentation and community support at the very least. I have a MegaSquirt-2 in one of my cars. The MicroSquirt is a smaller powersports-sized version of it. I plan to put a more archaic 8-bit MegaSquirt-I in another one of my cars later.

Edited by HeadTrauma

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I think you should try an FCR carb.  There are tons of them on ebay.  I found a brand new one for $250.00.

 

I have fuel injection on my YZ250FX and it is nice but it's also extremely complex.

 

I like the simplicity of the XR650L.

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I've been riding a KTM 990r the past few years , love it , but lots of wires and sensors tho that are expensive as hell to replace. Just got a 96 600 forget how easy a bike could be to work on. Electric start would be nice tho...lol

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After studying available information for the Ecotrons system, I think I like the idea… (using the DR650 installation guide as a comparison) …

PROS
1) No need to mount a custom crankshaft position sensor.  It appears that you can just tap into the existing pulse generator signal heading to the CDI (please someone tell me if I'm wrong about this).  I’d rather not mess around inside the crankcase unless I have to.

2) No need to install an oxygen sensor.  Drilling, welding and taping into the exhaust is yet another thing I’d rather not do.  The DR650 installation guide says it is not necessary.  
 
3) Most of everything you need comes with the kit.  The throttle body seems to be sized correctly and everything should fit nicely (if I’m measuring correctly).  I still worry about the throttle cable alignment.

CONS
1) Where in the heck do I mount the ECU? (Frankly I can’t find any extra room on the XR650L where I can cram this thing into).

2) High power consumption:  Per the DR650 installation guide, the EFI system consumes 70 watts (fuel pump, fuel injector, and ECU all gobbling power continuously).  When you factor in that the stock alternator is only 186 watts and then add up all of the existing power consumption just from the headlight, taillight, etc., it appears there is virtually no extra “juice” to be had.  I would worry about overtaxing the charging system and finding myself stuck somewhere without enough juice to power the starter.  I wouldn’t even consider adding any extra lights or cigarette charger if I installed this EFI system (alternatives would be to install LED headlamps or install a new high wattage alternator… these are all very expensive options).

For now, I think I will keep researching EFI systems and if I decide to buy, I’ll document and post my results.

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Conifer...

  • You're correct on the the use of the PG for the trigger.  It would work very similar to a common crank sensor as it produces a similar signal.
  • Though not required I strongly suggest installing the O2 sensor in the system.  This is what makes fuel injection great.  It allows the ECU to run closed loop making necessary fuel adjustments based on real time exhaust gas analysis.  Otherwise you are relying on a fixed fuel curve similar to that of a carburetor (though still more precise).
  • The kit does seem pretty comprehensive to me as well.
  • I would look into mounting the ECU inside the airbox.  It is a popular place for folks that do the battery relocation to place their CDI module.
  • I never considered the power issue but you can free up quite a few watts by intalling LED's everywhere that would help with the electrical load issues.  It may be worthwhile to do an alternator upgrade though.  Remember that excess power is bled off as heat through the regulator/rectifier so you don't want tons of reserve not being used.

I've talked myself into it.  I'm just saving up to do it.  I have a prioritized list of "wants" and this is a step or two below the Daniel Defense V11 Pro I just checked off that list so I'm getting closer.  Keep us posted...

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  • Though not required I strongly suggest installing the O2 sensor in the system.  This is what makes fuel injection great.  It allows the ECU to run closed loop making necessary fuel adjustments based on real time exhaust gas analysis.  Otherwise you are relying on a fixed fuel curve similar to that of a carburetor (though still more precise).

 

Makes total sense.

 

This quote on page 25 of the "Ecotrons EFI installation manual for the Suzuki DR-650" is a little disturbing however...

 

"NOTE:

Using our ECU to control the CDI has NOT BEED TESTED on the Suzuki DR-650. It is recommended you bypass installing this as well as the narrow

band oxygen sensor and bung. For further information please contact us."

Close loop fuel controls based on the NB O2 is still under tuning process. DR650 engine does not run well at 14.7 AFR in many conditions, esp. in idle. Running in open loop fuel is fine with this kit."

 

I realize were talking the XR650L vs. the DR650, but in theory both engines, ignition systems and fueling systems are practically identical.  I guess I'll have to phone these guys up and see what they recommend.  (I was also a little nervous about welding the exhaust pipe, so it was easy to talk myself out of installing the sensor).

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I downloaded the tuning software a while back and played with it a little.  

 

I don't think the 14.7 AFR is the only target option available, though that note does seem to suggest otherwise.  Though I obviously can't connect to the Ecotrons ECU I feel that there is a user adjustable setting that can enrichen the target AFR.  

 

I really wouldn't want it that lean so I hope it is possible.  I'm after max power and the least operating temperature and not a true stoichiometric mix.  The option of being able to instantly "rejet", via a phone app, for efficiency does sound great to me.  

 

If you talk with them it would be a good question to ask.

Edited by hollerhead

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I just opened the software again and it is pretty simple to set your desired AFR (Lamda in their software) at all RPM's.  I'm interested to know why they put that note in there.

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I just opened the software again and it is pretty simple to set your desired AFR (Lamda in their software) at all RPM's.  I'm interested to know why they put that note in there.

 

They put it there because narrow band oxygen sensors only work well in a narrow AFR band centered right around stoich, which is 14.7:1 for gasoline and air-cooled engines don't typically like cruise mixtures as lean as stoich.

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