Ice Tire Liners

[yz250f_spud]

I got into ice racing a couple years ago.  Nothing organized, just some friends having some fun.  I studded up some old MX tires and gave it a go.  Last year I upgraded to a used Fredette rear tire which is great but it way outperforms my front.

 

So, I want to make a new front for this year.  I have access to the right front tire, but I need a liner.  I've heard you can use a street bike tire with the sidewalls cut off as a liner.

 

Two questions:

1) what size street tire do I need for a liner for a 21" knobby?

2) what do you use to cut the side walls off?

 

I'm only interested in the Kold Kutter style tires.  Not the bolt/concrete screw types.  ?

[coryf89]

those kold cutters were garbage as far as im concerned.  maybe good on strictly a frozen pond but thats it.

 

a street bike tire seems a little excessive.

 

lots of guys here using an old HD tube or an old fire hose type of material.

Edited November 18, 2015 by coryf89

[yz250f_spud]

That's the point.  These are for ice and that's it.  No trails what so ever.

 

The street bike tire is a liner so you can run screws longer than ~1/2".  You actually thread through the knob and through the liner so they don't rip out.  A street tire is a cheap man's version of this > http://www.bobscycle.com/offroad/parts/tires-wheels/ice-studs/ice-masters-ice-stud-tire-liner-for-21in-tires.html

Edited November 18, 2015 by yz250f_spud

[CBus660R]

I'm gonna guess you probably want something like a 90/90x19.  Gotta figure out the diameter of your front tire inside the carcass and match it up to the true OD of the donor tire.  Even if you get it close, it'll take some trial and error to trim the donor tire to fit.  I'd talk with a local H-D dealer and see if they'll give you a take off from a bike that runs a skinny front tire and start cutting away ?

[yz250f_spud]

Yup, that's what I was kinda thinking.  I think I'll try it out.  Dealer should give me the tire, just lose out on my time if it doesn't work.

 

Think a utility knife would work for cutting or would I need something else?  I wouldn't be cutting against the strings so that should help?

[CBus660R]

Think a utility knife would work for cutting or would I need something else? I wouldn't be cutting against the strings so that should help?

If you get a bias ply with nylon belts, you should be able to cut it with a knife. Buy a 10 pack of fresh blades. I doubt 1 blade will get it done. Again, I've never tried this, just thinking out loud here ?

BTW, I have heard of this technique (this is for the other poster who hasn't)

Edited November 18, 2015 by CBus660R

[The Inquisitor]

For the rear, I used an OLD UHD tube. Cut out the valve and sliced around the inside. After putting this in then another UHD tube (which I do not really ever want to do again) I could run 0 PSI.

 

Or maybe a reverse something like this

 

https://tubesaddle.com/

[CBus660R]

For the rear, I used an OLD UHD tube. Cut out the valve and sliced around the inside. After putting this in then another UHD tube (which I do not really ever want to do again) I could run 0 PSI.

 

Or maybe a reverse something like this

 

https://tubesaddle.com/

You're missing the point.  Using an old street tire as a liner gives you more depth to run the longer ice screws (1"1/2) that go all the way through the outer tire and into the inner tire.  That's how you really anchor the screws so they don't pull out.

[The Inquisitor]

You're missing the point.  Using an old street tire as a liner gives you more depth to run the longer ice screws (1"1/2) that go all the way through the outer tire and into the inner tire.  That's how you really anchor the screws so they don't pull out.

Opps I thought you meant an old street tire TUBE.

 

I used the concrete screw method to stud my dirt bike tires and never had an issue with them pulling out. Just getting flats..

Edited November 19, 2015 by filterx

[coryf89]

We got snow this weekend . I got a brand new set of tires sitting there waiting that I'm gonna stud up

I'm gonna pre drill holes. Drive a masonry screw from the inside. Then cross thread a nut on.

My only concern is what to do on the inside of the tire. Possibly an old tube with random dabs of glue to protect the real tube from the screw heads? Any advice? Will def not be using a street bike tire and 1.5" screws. That's just nuts.

Edited November 19, 2015 by coryf89

[The Inquisitor]

Ya those last 2 pics are of my bike and this works great IMO.

 

When I first did this, I used a number of wraps of duct tape inside the tire against the heads of the screws. When i pulled the tube after the first flat the duct tape left a huge mess and made it hard to find the hole. Might have been a pinch flat but pretty sure if it was not from the heads of the screws cus they get sucked in good to the inside if of the tire when when you impact on the nuts. They will not pull through. Anyway when I did flat. I then took that UHD tube out, cut out the valve and cut down the inside to open it up. I put it around a new UHD tube and stuffed it in the tire against the screw head's, then mounted the tire. Again this was a BITCH. I then filled enough air to set the rear bead, the when down to something like 2 PSI and even 0 PSI was ok.

 

These were the Tapcon screws I used and get a deep socket and drive the nuts down really tight the first time

 

here are some pics of the rear after some hard rides on mixed snow and dirt. Middle pic si the front other 2 or the rear. They still worked awesome!!!

Edited November 19, 2015 by filterx

[CBus660R]

 

Opps I thought you meant an old street tire TUBE.

 

I used the concrete screw method to stud my dirt bike tires and never had an issue with them pulling out. Just getting flats..

No worries  ?

 

Ya those last 2 pics are of my bike and this works great IMO.

 

When I first did this, I used a number of wraps of duct tape inside the tire against the heads of the screws. When i pulled the tube after the first flat the duct tape left a huge mess and made it hard to find the hole. Might have been a pinch flat but pretty sure if it was not from the heads of the screws cus they get sucked in good to the inside if of the tire when when you impact on the nuts. They will not pull through. Anyway when I did flat. I then took that UHD tube out, cut out the valve and cut down the inside to open it up. I put it around a new UHD tube and stuffed it in the tire against the screw head's, then mounted the tire. Again this was a BITCH. I then filled enough air to set the rear bead, the when down to something like 2 PSI and even 0 PSI was ok.

 

These were the Tapcon screws I used and get a deep socket and drive the nuts down really tight the first time

 

here are some pics of the rear after some hard rides on mixed snow and dirt. Middle pic si the front other 2 or the rear. They still worked awesome!!!

You're a better man than me, I just opened up the check book and bought a set of Mitas Winter Friction tires 

Edited November 19, 2015 by CBus660R

[coryf89]

wouldnt it be easier to glue the old UHD tube to the inside of the tire, then carry on normally?

 

why is a deep socket needed?  seems like a normal one would do the trick?

 

im thinking of just using normal studs in the front.

 

how come you did every 2nd rear lug?  im thinking of doing every single lug.  any reason not to?

 

ill be riding in about 12" or so of powder, with frozen ground underneath on a crf450. I hope they hold up longer than a few rides as im sacrificing a brand new set of 180$ tires for this.

 

I think ive got a youtube video in my saved list that walks you through it and shows you exactly what you all need.

[The Inquisitor]

Yep - It was a crap load of working doing this ONCE and extremely rewardiing. I've got these tires for sale if anyone is interested cus the $$ will go towards a set of something these  pre made ones...

 

IMO if your not riding on a frozen lake or some where you need spikes all you really need is studs.

 

 

http://www.kevinscycle.com/mixed-terrain/

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by filterx

[coryf89]

No worries  ?

 

You're a better man than me, I just opened up the check book and bought a set of Mitas Winter Friction tires 

 

wow. 350$ USD for 1 tire... thats 1000$ canadian for a set of tires. no kidding you opened up the check book.  damn near to re mortgage the house to buy those things.

 

ive tried the plain stud thing.  80$ for studs and 3 hours in the shop just to ride for an hour before theyre shredded up and falling out. no thanks.

Edited November 19, 2015 by coryf89

[The Inquisitor]

See if your local car tire shop will stud up your tires like the pic I posted for a case of beer or a little something something ?

[coryf89]

thats a good idea.

 

I found these, but at 1$ per stud it would almost be smarter to get a timbersled...

http://www.gripstuds.com/1800_Tire_Stud.php

[CBus660R]

wow. 350$ USD for 1 tire... thats 1000$ canadian for a set of tires. no kidding you opened up the check book. damn near to re mortgage the house to buy those things.

This will be my 3rd season on them and they still look great. I know guys who have a set pushing 10 years old. As long as you don't do anything dumb, they don't wear out. All that happnes is the eventually dry rot.

[slotracer577]

I use a 19" street tire. Still have one if you want it. I am pretty sure I used a utility knife to cut out the beads.

[Wild Alaskan]

thats a good idea.

 

I found these, but at 1$ per stud it would almost be smarter to get a timbersled...

http://www.gripstuds.com/1800_Tire_Stud.php

You can easily get two seasons of hard riding on mixed snow rocks and dirt out of those, I use their long motorcycle stud in the rear, about 150 is penty